Oh and Firecracker, if you need some support with dev work, I can see if I can free up some time so we can look into a couple of topics together. It won't be much (think 1 or 2 evenings), but if you need the mental support and an extra pair of eyes going through the code, I think I can help.

Maybe some other topics to consider (although mainly meta-development I think):
- getting nwsync enabled on the server -> this could help get more new players onboarded
- getting some reliable auto-restart scripts working -> especially the crash that occurs when logging toons seems irrecoverable by the current restart scripts (according to Grey due to some pop-ups that get generated on his server that keep the process alive)

[All that being said, the real question is: is this a problem?]

Regarding brownie and wemic races:

A brownie gets +7 dex +5 char +3 wis and +3 int at the expense of -4 strength (top of my head). Compared to the usual +2/-2 kind of perks on other races, I think it is clear that the brownie's stats are nowhere near balanced. On top of that, the brownie seems to get dodge as a bonus feat, from which almost any dex-based build would benefit, because it is usually a prerequisite for either dex-based prestige classes, or follow up feats, or both.

A wemic gets +7 str +1 dex +1 con at expense of quite some charisma (again top of my head), but for most min/max strength builds, that char drop doesn't have a lot of impact. On top of that, it is the only selectable race that is considered "large" size, meaning he can for instance wield greatsword in 1 hand, allowing a shield in the other, or dual-wield rapiers, etc. Also, the large size gives bonus to knockdown.

Another way of saying it: in general any dex build on the forum will get better when choosing brownie and any strength build takes wemic and those two races will soon be the only ones on the server. If that is not a sign of them being overpowered, then I don't know what is.

All that being said, the real question is: is this a problem? The few players that are still around know that the server is actually quite difficult to play nowadays, because you cannot just form a 5 man army to march into Minas Tirith or kill the Balrog like you could in the good old days. Maybe with these new races enabled, build-builders get the opportunity to squeeze some dearly needed extra punch out of their toons and can finally play some of the harder content again. I, for one, have had a blast with Skywolf so far, trying to get some weird builds to work that were previously not doable (my favorite so far is a hipsing iron golem with epic dodge and conceal, that I will be posting on the forum soon and playing just because I want to see it in action!)

down

happened multiple days now, usually when i log off and then try to log on another toon.

closing this thread: as reported in another thread (everything broken....) all is working again now that classes.2da file is put back in correct override directory.

Just checked:

1. alignment restrictions are not enforced, so fix works
2. shifter shapes seem to work again (not talking about the known issues of meta-magic stuff like empowering shape spells, that seems to be an nwn:ee altogether different issue): iron golem has a warhammer and demonflesh is replaced by helmed horror again

So it all seems to work as expected.

Maybe a final note on a question asked by CleverOne in another thread: I also checked my dragon toon that has monk levels and it seems the ab regression over attacks seems to continue straight down for the entire round (so no 2nd attack at max ab), but with the -3 penalty per extra attack, like a monk gets, instead of -5 that other classes endure.

I'll give it a check this evening @Grey!

ok, just to keep thinking out loud:

I've been reading up on specifically the topic of alignment restriction (thinking that the other topics are harder to google for) and from what I can tell, this should have been accomplished in the past by editing the classes.2da file and putting it in the server's override directory. Without going into all the details, maybe some things that can be checked by Grey or Firecracker:

- did the classes.2da file get overwritten recently by some nwn:ee version (maybe they use the same mechanism to apply patches as we did to apply custom rules)?
- did the location of the override directory change in nwn:ee (maybe in a recent patch?)
- I also see mention of an updated layout of the classes.2da file, so maybe our "override" classes.2da is no longer compatible with nwn:ee?

I could check all of this out myself, but I would need a copy of the module to do it. I will connect with Grey/Fire on options there. (I had a copy in the past, when _df was still dm/scripter, but that version is by now so outdated, it makes no sense anymore to use it, even if I could find it)

Then it may have changed in some of the newer nwn ee patches or some tinkering to the server/mod. Always tricky, changing things to old systems.. I was actually surprised by the amount (and depth) of fixes that were mentioned in the last 2 stable patches made by nwn ee devs. (Didn't read older patches) They really add/alter all kind of scripting stuff and I could perfectly imagine that some of those fixes don't play nice with the gvm scripts/modifications.

The downside is of course that now you really don't have anything to go on, when you try to think up new builds. Some mechanics have been reset to almost "vanilla" nwn, some stuff still works as posted on the forum and some stuff is... In between.. Not trying to sound too dramatic here, but for me this is the biggest threat of leaving this game for good, ever.

Let's see where this thread goes, I'd like to not give up just yet!

Hi all,

Just sharing some frustrations, because I've now been wasting a ton of time thinking up builds and then when trying to test, it seems everything has gone to shit..

Some stuff that is broken:
- all the changes to the shapes (as shared in another post). Example: iron golem has no warhammer and stat improvements. No warcry.
- alignment restrictions are back in place. For example barbarian cannot be chosen alongside paladin/monk/etc.

At first I thought it was related to me picking wemic and brownie races (because those are "new" and therefore interesting from a build perspective), but I just tried the same with human and it is all still broken.

Did I miss some announcements on the forum and is this all expected behavior now (quite sure I didn't)? Or has something changed recently that could explain all those scripts to stop working?

For now, I'm moving to another game. Will check back here for responses in a couple of days.

Update: in another topic that was started by CleverOne it was discussed that ab progression for shapes seemed to work differently now. And I've been trying out some stuff and indeed it seems changed. For starters, I don't think I would ever create a build that would only attack once at max ab. Also, the remark about monk making the difference is inaccurate: my shifter has no monk levels and still ab progresses down and down, never gaining a second attack at max ab in a round.

My hunch: this all changed with the move to nwn ee. If possible, I could sit with firecracker to test this hypothesis.. we should be able to verify by starting the mod in good old nwn (non-ee).

server crashed.. gonna stay for another few minutes to see if Grey's new script kicks it back up!

update: script does not seems to start it. Giving up for today! Ciao!

Hi all,

Decided to join the server today and with the recent board discussion (or, how to call it, concensus?) to not ban wemic and brownie races I tried to come up with some previously non-viable builds, considering the high bonus to str/dex respectively.

Long story short: I noticed that the construct shape feat seems broken! At least when playing brownie (didn't test any other race) and in player test area (didn't check actual server), you shift into an iron golem without the buffs stated on the forum. Also, you shift into a deamonflesh golem instead of the (altered) helmed horror.

Needless to say, builds don't work as expected when this is broken ;-)

I don't expect anyone to dive into this straight away, but just wanted to post it here.

_bk

Sounds like a simple, yet effective fix. Thanks Grey!

@CleverOne: I sometimes helped hfodf when he was still doing a lot of scripting for the server. At the moment I guess only Fire is actually doing anything on the mod.

I think I did get a copy of the mod quite recently, so maybe I'll take a look at the drop script. At least for a lot of the bosses the same script seems to run, judging by the logging you see in-game. If that is really the case, then adding a simple multiplier there shouldn't be too hard (possibly altered by an ingame item for DMs).

Still, I'll first leave it to Fire. If he needs help, he can reach out. I would need a fresher copy of the mod anyways.

I was told that there was something special about that transition.. quest? I don't know anymore.. some things that should not have been forgotten, etc etc

I'd also favor an increase in drop rate. Probably not to the point that every boss item drops in 3 runs, but who wants to kill Baragor 100 times and still don't get his axe, right, _right_, RIGHT??!!?? (ok, this may be my own frustration at work ;-))

Also, it is probably (not 100% sure, but I've done a little bit of coding on the server waaaaay back) the easiest change to implement.

Regarding removal of class/alignment restrictions: I'd be against that for two reasons.
1. The alignment restrictions for class selection in characters is already gone, so you already have added flexibility compared to the old old days.
2. Part of the fun is having toons at two sides of the isle, just to be able to loot that gear for your Gondor that all the uber Gondor bosses are wearing and vice versa.

Of course, I am probably missing some stuff, so maybe you can pursuade me in changing my opinion ;-) wisdom comes with age and we're all a bit older now!

Anyway.. drop rate up: +1!!

Haha first time in a week that I try to get online (months actually, but quickly logged last week to say hi) and the server is down. Oh well, I'll be back later! Cheers!

I don't want to change a thing hell, maybe i'll even go over some old builds i was trying out to see if i can make them work with those new races!

Still hope to see you guys on. Probably I'll be online for some hrs tomorrow..

Is that brownie race (and the other, cannot remember the name) now allowed? I'm pretty sure it wasn't before EE. They have some imba starting stats, right?

I noticed the same on all my toons that include monk. Don't know if it is "an nwn EE" thing, or if it has always been like this. I will check with my pala dragon when next on and let you know here.

I only have EE installed right now. Had to do a 'back to factory' reset. Do I need NWN old version (Platinum Edition) installed? Do I need old CEP? Do I need to download server specific file(s)?

I would even say that having old nwn installed makes it more likely that things don't work. Because you will get confused with all the locations where nwn data will be on your drive.

The old nwn is dead, long live nwn EE ;-)

Just to add: I would only try the yellow stuff of just following the white stuff is not working on your machine. I think if you start completely fresh (meaning: no install of old non-EE nwn, let's say a really new machine), you should be able to get up and running by just doing the white steps. (at least: it worked for me)

Thanks, Grey!

Seems dead? Cannot find it, nor direct connect (if gvm.publicvm.com is still correct dns)

fire, I believe it is now possible to select wemic and brownie races during character creation. On most servers (and surely on gvm prior to nwn:ee) this is not allowed due to the overpowered nature of those two. We may want to add checks after login to inform people and auto logout the toon after, say 2 mins (because internet tells me you cannot just disable those races in the mod or anything of that sort)?

I think I have found an issue with the harper scout potion that adds +5 ab and magic dmg: it cannot be used by unarmed monks. This is because the magic dmg (I guess) gets put onto the primary weapon, but unarmed toons carry none. Note: not talking about unarmed shapes, which, as stated on forum, need to use potion before shifting.

I feel that it was never the intention of the original script developer to single out unarmed monks (or other toons, but they won't exist) as the only builds that do not qualify for the magic dmg?

If you let me, I'm happy to try and script it into the mod. I would change the script so that it will add +5 magic dmg to primary weapon, OR, if no such weapon is equiped, to the gloves instead. If needed, I'll add checks to avoid misuse by casting both on weapon and on gloves for shifter builds (shouldn't be too hard).

Let me know if the observations are correct, and if you'd like my help fixing it.

Cheers,
bk