Defensive Stance

[azurerogue]

I know Dwarven Defenders have received some buffs already, and they're definitely not bad.  But they also lack something still, and I don't know what it is.  Even though I'm actively leveling a DD and kind of enjoying it, I still feel a little left behind.

In my mind, I always saw Barbarians and Dwarven Defenders as kind nicely opposed pair of classes, while they had some similarities.  Barbarians cannot be lawful, DDs must be lawful.  Barbarians use a special ability to decrease their defense while boosting their offense (massively so, in GvM), DDs use a special ability to decrease their offense (they can't move, for god's sake) in order to boost their defense.  The list goes on a bit longer, but it's not relevant.

In GvM, the Barbarian exchange has massively favored the offense.  The negative side effects of rage/mighty rage have been reduced - and the positive bonuses have been increased.  The DD stands neglected in that aspect, though.  Their signature ability to make themselves wall like was nerfed by 1.67 (I believe), and in GvM they've gained nothing to make Defensive Stance even worth using.

They can't move, they can't activate another combat mode, and if their target moves out of range they lose that use of Defensive Stance.  I think this deserves a buff.  Maybe even take away some of the bonuses the widget gives and add them into Defensive Stance if you want.  For starters I'd say maybe through some damage resistance into the stance, or maybe some more dodge AC, or some +Discipline (taken from the widget), or some other kind of AC bonus (if possible). 

I don't know, and I'm no game balance expert.  But it would be nice to see the DD's signature move actually worth using again. 

[ollebroc]

Defensive Stance is hardcoded!!!
               Sorry Dwarves. 

[-firecracker-]

Even if DD stance could be modified, which is not possible I am guessing from Olles post, there are two major problems with DD stance:

1) Makes the toon completely immobile and therefore very 1-dimensional (e.g. doesnt matter how much you buff it, as soon as anyone knows how to combat it the buff doesnt matter)

2) So easy to cause action cancel against it

When comparing the offensive feats (rages) of barbarians vs the defensive feats (stance) there is no comparison Unless you were to somehow give the DD insane regeneration while in stance (say +50? seems about an equivalent amount

[azurerogue]

Yea, but it would still make it worth using PvE.  Oh well, if it can't be changed it can't be changed.  I still think Barbarians get a bit more bang for their buck - but I guess they also have to use epic feats to get it - not just levels. 

[Terrorble]

Defensive stance, like Bane of Enemies, are two feats I'd really like to have more control over. 

I thought about granting small-ish physical damage immunities to DDs as they take more levels.  It becomes a problem with PM and shifter undead/construct builds so I never did that part.

In retrospect on barbarians, I think we should have required more barbarian levels to gain 2d12 mass crits and 2d8 sonic from thundering rage.  I think that mighty rage should be the only epic barbarian feat to grant a bonus attack (i.e. 2 from greater rage, none from terrifying or thundering, and 1 from mighty).  Terrifying rage and the current AC penalties seem ok how they are.  Another approach is to add some sort of fatigue setup where a barbarian has to wait a certain amount of time before raging again, but generally people don't like having to gimp around for annoying stuff like that.

[azurerogue]

This MIGHT be *way* overkill, Terror - so don't think that this is whining.  Just a polite suggestion.  You say the problem with adding more bonuses to DDs is PM/Construct.  Why not, instead, make DD worth taking to high levels WITHOUT said classes by giving DD X Immunity to Critical Hits.  Now, the obvious problem with that is you're granting immunity to criticals to yet another class and thereby opening up whole new class combos that could be abused. 

That's an understandable fear and may, in and of itself, make this suggestion worth throwing out.  In fact, I'm not sure I'm a fan of the idea anyways - because I'd hate to see my DD (planned before any such change was implemented) be punished like PMs are (fairly) - because I didn't account for that in my build. 

A minor, but useful, improvement would be this...  DDs generally are DR tanks, right?  Well, that means they spend a lot of feats on DR, and usually quite a few gear slots on DR...  maybe let the widget give them undispellable bonuses to STR or DEX or CON?  I mean, it would count towards the +12 cap so not a huge risk of being overpowered, right?  But still helpful for DDs as it may free up a slot or two for more DR-related items that would otherwise be ill-advised.

Just a thought.