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Gondor vs Mordor  |  Gondor vs Mordor 1  |  GvM1 Character Builds  |  Rogue builds  |  Rogue 13/Assassin 26/Ranger 1
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Author Topic: Rogue 13/Assassin 26/Ranger 1  (Read 4016 times)
Chaozrulez
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« on: 25 August 2010, 10:50 »

Elf   CE      
Ro13/As26/Ra1         
Str   8      
Dex   20/38->50      
Con   10      
Wis   8      
Int   16->28      
Cha   8      
         
1   R   Weapon Finesse   
2   R      
3   R   WF Short Sword   
4   R      
5   R      
6   R   Impr Crit Sword   
7   R      
8   R      
9   R   Blind Fight   
10   R      Defensive roll
11   R      
12   R   Toughness   
13   As      
14   As      
15   As   WF Bow   
16   As      
17   As      
18   As   Impr Crit Bow   
19   As      
20   As      
21   As   Armor Skin   
22   As      
23   As      
24   As   EWF Sword   
25   As      
26   As      Gr Dex
27   R   Epic Dodge   Imp Evasion
28   As      
29   As      
30   As   Gr Dex   
31   As      Gr Dex
32   As      
33   As   Gr Dex   
34   As      
35   As      Gr Dex
36   As   Gr Dex   
37   As      
38   As      
39   As   Gr Dex   Gr Dex
40   Ra      Blinding Speed

Now here is a new build I am working on, my very first build on this server was Semper Fidelis a Ranger6/Assassin24/SD10 which I improved, total sneak / death attack is 20d6 now.
You can skip 2 weapon feats (Sword or Bow) for Dodge/Mobility if you want to take SD instead of Ranger. For a pure sniper build I would take bow with SD but I took ranger because:
1. Max Discipline
2. 1 extra attack + 1 off hand with 2 short swords
3. Use of Tower Shield
4. Some Ranger specific gear (The Finisher/Spell Shield +6/Armor/Cloak etc)
5. Seeing from the threads SD class will get nerfed  Tongue
Now the Skill Points will be 340 or so with INT to boost the DC Death Attack.
I also have 2 Backstabber Swords with a +7 Parry Bonus each but I never used Parry before, would this be nice to use with this build? Also I could skip 2x Gr Dex for a MS / Hide +10 skill bonus.
Thanks,
Chaoz
« Last Edit: 25 August 2010, 11:27 by Chaozrulez » Logged

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azurerogue
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« Reply #1 on: 25 August 2010, 17:53 »

Parry seems like a poor choice.  It drastically cuts down on your offense and doesn't add a whole ton to your defense unless you're fighting 1v1.  I'd skip it and generally rely on having a partner (for flanking, thus sneak attacks) or attacking from invis/darkness (for flat-footed, thus sneak attacks) over trying to stay out in the open and defend via parry.

Also, I know it's the only way you could do it - but not having ESF: Discipline will hurt this toon.  Even with, say +20 from items (since you don't need huge hide/ms since you're not a SD) you'd have less than 70 Discipline.  I don't think that there's a way to fit it in this build, though - unless you move Ranger to 39 and take it as a general feat then - but then you'd be out a DEX bonus.  I don't know. 

I'm too lazy to do the math - what kind of AC/AB does this get?  It seems a bit low - especially since you lack HIPS. 
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NLawson
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« Reply #2 on: 25 August 2010, 18:24 »

Before you read this post, I want to say that this is entirely my own opinion, and I'm just making a couple (a lot) of suggestions based on what I would do. If you can find a reason that you'd prefer to ignore me completely (there are bound to be plenty   Roll Eyes) then feel free to do so. Cheesy

Also - It's going to be long, because I like to explain my decisions at every step and comment on changes I personally would make.

Parry is an almost entirely useless skill, since you can only block one attack every flurry. Unless you have insane ac and concealment, you wouldn't want to waste your time with it...even then, I'd rather have improved expertise up than parry.
Plus, you have epic dodge.

Also...I would take blinding speed a lot sooner (drop a great dex for it), and take epic prowess in it's place as a bonus ranger feat. Haste from items is absolutely terrible, when you could have 2 casts of a 25 round haste much much earlier. If you dropped the two bow foci, you could take ambidexterity and two weapon fighting, and your other spare great dex feat (if you dropped one for blinding speed) could go into improved TWF to get you an extra attack per round.

I might also drop 2 dex in the starting stats, and put the extra points into Con and Str (Str to 10 or so, con for the rest) because without hips you will die quickly in straight combat with low hp, since places to corner sneak are quite rare, and it's easy to counter (move into an open space). If they get a lucky couple of strikes, you could die right there before you have a shot at healing or running.
Disc without a strength bonus is useful to have to stop standard mobs kding you, but if you were to take hips instead you could avoid the whole issue by hiding.

Also - You can't wear any armour, since it'd limit your dex mod to 8 at best (and you get 20, so unless you have padded armour +11 you're better off with robes), though the ability to use shields and some of the ranger specific gear is handy, most of the stuff you would need could be UMDed.

Your assassin death attack paralysis only strikes when the target is out of combat, so unless you can hide again quickly it's going to be no use to you once you start fighting - the int boost is useful for poisons however: you can get a very good DC with 26 assassin levels plus 14 int mod.

If you dropped two more great dex, you could take dodge and mobility, and then take SD at some point in the build. Assassins CAN use darkness to get death attacks, but I wouldn't rely on it too much - there are plenty of UV items, and continual flame can grant permanent UV. That 20d6 death attack damage is a powerful tool, you'd be silly to throw it away in the middle of a battle by not being able to hide.

I'm don't think that SD will be nerfed...it's been left alone for a while now, and if it was made harder to hide then I would expect a LOT of items to be removed/edited to lose TS from them, because even now hiding is very difficult since a lot of people have TS on almost every toon they make. Cloaks of eyes or Barad Dur Hawkeyes are probably the worst culprits, but there are plenty of others.

Including all of my suggestions (which I'm not saying is a good idea, I'm just doing this as a visual aid), you get this:

Ro13/As26/SD1
Halfling (since you can't use a tower shield, I did this to get good starting stats)

Str   10     
Dex   18/32->44     
Con   14     
Wis   8     
Int   16->28     
Cha   8

1   R   Weapon Finesse   
2   R     
3   R   Ambidexterity
4   R     
5   R     
6   R   TWF
7   R     
8   R     
9   R   WF Short Sword   
10   R      Defensive roll*
11   R     
12   R   Blind Fight   
13   As     
14   As     
15   As   Imp Crit Sword
16   As     
17   As     
18   As   Imp TWF   
19   As     
20   As     
21   As   Armor Skin   
22   As     
23   As     
24   As   EWF Sword   
25   As     
26   As      Gr Dex*
27   R   Epic Dodge*   Imp Evasion
28   As   
29   As     
30   As   Dodge   
31   As   Mobility*
32   SD     
33   As   Blinding speed
34   As     
35   As   
36   As  Gr Dex*   Epic Prowess
37   As     
38   As     
39   As   Gr Dex   
40   As   Gr Dex*

*Rogue or Assassin Bonus feat

This build would lose Disc, but gain Hips, drop toughness (loss of the ranger bonus feat) and get prowess. It would lose 3 ab and ac from the lowered dex (32/44 not 38/50), from starting stats plus half the number of great dex feats, but it would gain another attack per round (making 7 with haste, so 3 shots at a paralysis upon engagement).
Because of the requirements for epic dodge, SD would have to be taken quite late, so I fitted it in as soon as I could.
If you dropped ANOTHER 2 great dex, you could take epic skill focus move silently and toughness, but I really don't think that's worth it. That's entirely up to you though.
You could also trade your sword focii for bow focii if you wanted a sniper, and take toughness instead of weapon finesse.

As Azure said (after I was nearly done XD) - your ab is going to be fairly low, compared to a standard hitter, and your normal damage will by ABYSMAL (because you're a dexer) so going toe-to-toe with another fighter is really not the tactic you want to choose, because you're almost certain to die. Dexers need trickery, like ranged weapons, hips, monk speed, or traps, because they simply can't compete in all-out combat. By all means, you don't have to be cheap and spam hips as fast as you can, but you're never going to survive a full fight with a proper fighter unless you paralyse them. The DA damage is very powerful (20-120, plus normal weapon damage), it would be a waste not to use it.

Feel free to use or adjust this build, or ignore me completely, because I already have my own assassin which I'm quite happy with, and this entire chunk of text was written purely out of interest.

^_^
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Chaozrulez
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« Reply #3 on: 31 August 2010, 09:58 »

Thanks for the help guys, I just wanted DEX50 for highest AB possible. I am level 33 now and could still drop 2DEX for Dodge/Mobility for SD and 2DEX for ESF Hide/MS. Just some questions though: Is Ghostly Visage dispellable and what is the AB bonus when you attack from HIPS?
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radagast
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« Reply #4 on: 31 August 2010, 14:28 »

I agree with NLawson. I'm making a 26 assassin, 1 sd 13 rogue but hitting isnt her forte with the emphasis on the rogue skills instead and the defences of the assassin help. Like NL says starting with 20 dex might seem appealing but thats 8 points you could put elsewhere wis (if monk) or str for the sake of 1 ab ac that 2 dex gives.

Another combo if you want to keep your 50 dex might be 9 monk 5 sd 26 assassin, you get epic dodge and kd etc and if you leave the last monk lvl till 37 (epic dodge late) you can boost your disc. 

Monk gives you lots more hits per round single or duel (or gloves) and of course you can make use of the wis ac to make up for lack of shield. Also monk gets a few decent starter feats cleave etc as well as a bit of speed for escaping ts toons.

Looking at your build i would definately trade the ranger for sd for all the reasons NL gives hitting things flat footed is about the only way you can do anything and you need to sneak them or you will be there all day with no damage  Cheesy 

Can you post the ab? for your guy thats alot of dex (50) i usually, like NL suggests just go for the 32 or 34 dex using a couple of feats for armour skin and i find epic skill focus hide and ms or just even hide help alot to.

I dont think the ghostly visage can be dispelled but im not sure about morded though. Parry i dont think would be up to much since you only get 3 hits a round

Not sure if you have seen them but here is the one i built a long while ago now

http://www.gondorvsmordor.com/gvm2/forum/index.php?topic=342.0

but i prefer this lvl spread but i would do things different as i was saying in the thread (masterthief was my old login)

http://www.gondorvsmordor.com/gvm2/forum/index.php?topic=670.0

The benefits are obviously a ton of buff/healing spells from cleric lvls.

Regards
Rabbac
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NLawson
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« Reply #5 on: 31 August 2010, 17:16 »

I think that's the largest number of times I've ever seen my suggestions for modifications to a build brought forward as useful O_O
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