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Gondor vs Mordor  |  Gondor vs Mordor 1  |  GvM1 Players Forum  |  Anyone still around?
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Author Topic: Anyone still around?  (Read 35143 times)
Pixie
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« Reply #25 on: 17 January 2012, 04:58 »

Yeah, I wouldn't have expected a post from me either Smiley It's been a while...

But it's a testament to the NWN devs that the game is almost 10 years old and there's never been another game quite like it.  If anyone ever makes another RPG with a more modern core but the same scriptability and extensibility that NWN has, I would be all over that.

Hm, has anyone got a recent copy of the GvM module? Perhaps I'll open the toolset and poke around a bit... at least remind myself how the Scavenger actually works... (assuming it's still around!)  If so, send me an email?  pixie@colinm.org should do the trick, or send me a PM here. Smiley
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« Reply #26 on: 17 January 2012, 06:20 »

Why do I have the strange feeling of being turned into a pixie during a boss battle!!!  icon_jokercolor
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Rade
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« Reply #27 on: 17 January 2012, 22:19 »

[...] it's a testament to the NWN devs that the game is almost 10 years old and there's never been another game quite like it.  If anyone ever makes another RPG with a more modern core but the same scriptability and extensibility that NWN has, I would be all over that.

I whole-heartedly agree! I really thought Bioware had something going with the Aurora Toolset, and really hoped they'd continue that. My friend took a course at our local University that actually used Aurora as a teaching tool. I helped him do some coding and we downloaded a lot of haks, which ended up giving us a puzzle game (no visible interface, just the mouse) that we used to make a mystery/puzzle/horror game set in the present day.

I'm also really hoping and searching for a modern RPG toolset. I also like the idea of using a FPS engine like Unreal Engine 3 or Source SDK to make an RPG, but the amount of coding and self-educating it takes to use these engines, forces it to be more than just a hobby. As a single person, or a small indie team, you'd have to put many years into an engine to really get a good sellable product. Although I really think that game graphics are peaking, to the point where things look so good and realistic (it's kind of freaky), but just enough that they're different from reality. Computer graphics now are timeless, in my opinion, and even things like cell-shading will have a 'retro-quality' in a few years. It's an exciting time, because I believe you could develop a game with a modern engine today, and in 15 years it will still look like a game from 2027 without the contrast that games such as Myst (of 1973) do with Crysis 2 (early 2011). Heck, they're making entire movies with computer graphics!

If anyone is honestly interested in doing some hobbyist indie developing, feel free to shoot me an e-mail as well: look.up.to.me@hotmail.com

When Bioware re-used the Aurora Engine (although heavily modified, enough to call it the Odyssey Engine) to make Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic (and that game looked really great for the time) I thought they'd continue making such open-sourced toolsets. Unfortunately when they developed the Eclipse Engine for Dragon Age Origins and I was sorely dissappointed there was no toolset. That game would have been AWESOME if there was one, but instead we got the "buy more content to continue playing" business model, and now I see they released Star Wars: The Old Republic and are going with the pay-to-play model (They used the Hero Engine, which looks pretty awesome, and has freeware versions, but I haven't tried it yet). Mass Effect 3 will be done on the Unreal Engine 3.

I was also briefly helping to develop Gondor vs Mordor 2, but sadly life got in the way and I couldn't finish. I really didn't like the Electron Engine as much, I found it way too buggy and I lost a lot of work due to crashes. Also, they included a lot of code from the Aurora Toolset (probably to help ease the transition from Aurora to Electron) but most of the functions were artifacts or garbage and never did what they promised they would, which was incredibly frustrating. Below is an account of my developing experience with the Aurora and Electron toolsets, with some ego stroking and reminiscing:

I remember starting out in development, I made a boss fight in the Aurora Toolset where the user fought with Glaurung on top of the Ruins of Angband. Being awakened from rest, Glaurung was slow and small, but as the fight progressed (based on how much damage he'd taken), he would buffet his wings causing increasingly devasting effects. Initially the buffet was simple bludgeon attack, but eventually Glaurung would come crashing down in a comet of flame that would knockdown the player and send them sliding to the edge of the map (it looked kinda cheesy, but it was fun to do). Every time he came back, he would be larger (thanks to the CEP model scaling), breathing fire, and easier to hit (reflecting the massive size), but he took less damage and dealt out faster and greater damage until the very end (I think he had like dual-kamas and was breathing fire dealing out metric truckloads of fire damage). It used a custom variation of a scripted OnHit Immortality, such that mages could use death magic to deal damage, and he was immune to instant death such as vorpal and devastating critical without being immune to crits. The area was designed for party play, and had things like archer turrets, but near the end of the fight he would start burning areas of the map, making them innaccessible and hopefully more of a challenge. It took me about 16 hours (2 days) to do this, and it was (in my opinion) really awesome for a neverwinter fight. Sadly, I never did anything with it.

Then I tried to do the same fight in the Electron engine for Neverwinter 2... The first problem I ran into was that the same OnHit immortality script only worked half of the time. I scried over my code for days to try and figure out what was wrong, and eventually realized that the engine sometimes switched the OnHit script to the default OnHit script, which was incredibly random and frustrating. Once I conceded "okay, whatever, it's not that important I'll just remove instant-death options", I moved onto the growth mechanism. First, there was no animation for the dragon model to buffet their wings or leap into the air (like there was in Aurora) - I don't know if they released some in the expansions, but I didn't buy them. Since I couldn't make it look like he was flying, I settled for him just dissappearing and then reappearing, thinking I would make it a fight with a ghost instead (or something, at this point I didn't care) who would just go invisible like Big Boo in Mario. Problem is, the DissappearAppear() script didn't work like it did in the Aurora set, and he would permanently disappear and never come back. OKAY! So using the same model was out, but I've got a backup plan! I'll just make him a dragon again and cover him with fire as he grows right in front of the player without disappearing. Well, nowI discover that even though the log claims that his size is increasing, it never does in real-time, I have to leave the area, and come back - then he'll be bigger. So that doesn't quite work... Okay, how about every time he dissappears, I'll teleport a new one to his place with boosted stats, sure, no problem! Well, when I warp in a new model it appears in a random location (sometimes across the map) despite the log telling me it's sending it to the same coordinates he left at. Very well, I'll confine the area and he'll just teleport around randomly... So this fight looks like it will be against a ghost instead of a dragon. Now how can I make a cool psionic attack every time he dissappears? I know! I'll make a pulse that will knock everyone down for a round and give it a free round of attack! ... Now that he knocks everyone down, they don't get back up, despite me specifying it only lasts a round... "&@#$ it, I'm done, screw the Electron toolset." I said to myself after 2 weeks of working with it...

... so I go back to the Aurora Toolset and make a fight with the Balrog of Moria. In stage 1 (Moria), the Balrog is near-immortal and chases the player to a thin bridge deep in the Dwarrowdelf. When crossing the bridge, the Balrog encounters a trigger that makes it fall down and the screen shakes (to simulate the bridge breaking, I couldn't actually figure a way to make it break) and the animation from the spell "flame lash" goes on the players, cue transition to stage 2. Stage 2 (Falling through a Black Chasm), where the player is given the "flying" version of their body with the Balrog, so that it kind of gives the illusion that they're not standing on the ground while fighting, in a pitch black area, with torchlights flying by at super fast speeds to simulate that they're falling through a deep blackness. Here, the Balrog is immortal still, but downpowered so that the party can survive the fall. After stage 2 of this fight through the darkness (1 minute long if I remember correctly), the fight area transitions to a great subterranean lake in the depths of the world. Stage 3 (Underneath the World: Subterranean Lake), now the Balrog is mortal, his flames extinguished by the pool of water he and the the player(s) are waist-deep in. Once the Balrog is defeated, the player(s) would be welcome to explore the places beneath the world, with creatures unspeakable (my thought was to replace the Drow Lands of the original GvM with a custom area beneath the world, and the Balrog fight would be the transition to this place). The result? Accomplished the above, except that it looked quite cheesy due to the Aurora engine's finite abilities. I'm sure you can picture Stage 2 well enough... the balrog and the player circled each other in a pitch black area, I had to disable movement for both parties to prevent them from running around the map and ruining the effect, which overall was pretty cheesy.

Yup! That about summarizes my developing experience. I'm pretty comfortable with C-style scripting, and I think I have pretty creative solutions. Now I wonder if the server is up, so I can continue my trip down memory lane.
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« Reply #28 on: 18 January 2012, 02:18 »

I think we're seeing greater "tool reuse" in the gamedev community over time, as things which everyone *used* to roll-their-own on become more commoditized.  For example, for 3D physics/worlds, people pretty much go with Havok or something similar (Half-Life or Unreal engines, etc).  There's still a lot that we're missing, though. Physics seems to be mostly solved but I'm less sure about graphics; it's really hard to properly design and animate 3D models, particularly of humans.   We need more open-source 3d-models and animators Smiley

Also, even if graphics did magically become live-action movie-quality, I still think you'd see studios rolling their own stuff for models and so on, just because the gaming market is so overcrowded already (many copycat games) and you need to do *something* to distinguish yourself from your competitors, and the art direction is a good way to get something distinctive without *too* much extra work.

IMHO the most interesting stuff going on in the gaming space these days are mobile/social games... I think a lot of what we're seeing now is a bit stupid (I'm not an Angry Birds fan...) but I see a lot of innovative stuff opening in the future as developers start to embrace the platform more fully, and start trying to do things that you simply *can't do* with a console or PC game, like having people engage in real life.

Just my $0.02 as a semi-interested observer Smiley
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« Reply #29 on: 18 January 2012, 07:42 »

Very interesting Rade.  I have tried to implement some cinematic-ish stuff in NWN, and have found it difficult and time-consuming.  The end results have generally been cheesy, or ended in frustration.  Examples would be: the pit traps on the 2nd floor of Cirith Ungol, or the fight with the Warden in the basement of Dol Guldur where he transforms mid-fight into the lizard-man-dragon thing.  Fortunately, the NWN1 community has some very knowledgable gurus and excellent resources to help with the quirks of the Aurora Toolset and scripting.

I echo your comment about needing more than just a single person or two to make anything significant.  I assume "hobbyist indie development" means independant hobbyist development?  I've been casually working on my own module (I wanted to try my hand at developing a setting and storyline, then bringing it to life), and it has taken forever to get very far.  I work 10 days in-a-row, then have 4 off.  I have a lot going on, so the days I work, I usually don't have a block of time big enough to sit down and make any major progress on the mod.  Especially, if it's scripting.  (Even if I do, I'm sorta brain-fried and can't focus or lack creativity)

I really have to hand it to NWN/GvM.  The character building options in NWN are nearly countless, even if you do the same character, it could be redone with a different weapon/gear, or slightly different skills, or feats to give a similar build a very different flavor.  And, I just plain ejoy the mechanics of fighting in NWN.  With gear swapping, items, potions, spells, feats, class abilities, etc, there are so many options that you can do.
I've recently started Star Wars: The Old Republic.  It looks great, the story for my class has been very interesting, and I enjoy it, but already (and it's only been out 1 month) I feel like I have little control over what my character will be, and during combat, I find myself using the same combat tactics repeatedly, without many options.  You pick your base class, then have two roads to choose from.  You can focus on certain parts of the skill tree more or less to customize, but overall, if you're a bounty hunter, you're a bounty hunter.  Now, if I could somehow be a Sith/Bounty Hunter/Mercenary, things would liven up.
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Rade
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« Reply #30 on: 18 January 2012, 08:33 »

I have tried to implement some cinematic-ish stuff in NWN, and have found it difficult and time-consuming.  The end results have generally been cheesy, or ended in frustration.

The Aurora engine isn't the greatest, but it's simple and robust - the cheese factor is very high, but its the story and intent that really make it count. Many modern engines have so many features that you drown in them, much like I found the Electron engine to be (where features to do a simple task like creating an area transition required 3 tutorials and more hours than I'd dare to count before they were working).
I'll definitely have to check out some of the examples you mentioned though!

I echo your comment about needing more than just a single person or two to make anything significant.  I assume "hobbyist indie development" means independant hobbyist development?
I meant just a bunch of creative people who love games, trying to make their own. No pressure like a company would, but just as a hobby. I'm not sure if that makes sense, but here's my grandios vision (go big or go home, right?): I picture a team of like 10 people of various specialities, pooling their ressources (for example, a 3D graphic modeller, a scripter, a storyline and concept artist, etc) to make a passion-project in their spare time.
That is why engines like the HeroEngine appeal to me. The game you're making is hosted on a cloud-style server, where several designers can be working on it at the same time, or you can make notes and leave messages for each other. It's a pretty cool concept, although the default graphics and interface look cheesy, they can be modified though if you had the right team. Best of all, it's free to startup and host. You'd only be looking at a cost if you actually published a game (basically just royalties on how much you make). I don't know all the license agreements in detail, but from my brief skimming of it today, it looks extensible with a wide pool of ressources... for free!

I really have to hand it to NWN/GvM.  The character building options in NWN are nearly countless [...]
True enough my friend! I always liked how Neverwinter had so many options. Something about how everything was related to numbers definitely ensnares my brain's left hemisphere and clings to it like an addictive drug. Even only having thought of playing neverwinter about a week ago, my mind still races at random times during the day like an acid flashback and I have to quickly jot down a character build I will probably never make. I confess that when I was younger and playing GvM all the time (even before that, on the arena server I used to play) I would jot down character builds on loose bits of paper as an idea sprung into my head. They literally fill an old cookie tin (about 9 by 12 inches). I know so many of the game rules I can sit down and sketch out plans for a character from their HP/AB/AC, to feats and stat calculations, although I still have to refer to my manual to figure out what their fortitude/reflex/will saves will be (ha!)

I've recently started Star Wars: The Old Republic.  It looks great, the story for my class has been very interesting, and I enjoy it, but already (and it's only been out 1 month) I feel like I have little control over what my character will be[...]
I've heard this complaint echoed about the game. I was really stoked on the release because, as an insatiable nerd, I love Star Wars. After reading some reviews and testaments of people who played it, I'm glad my frugal nature stopped me from buying into it (I loathe the pay-to-play model). The graphics are impressive yet cartoonish, all the characters are paralleled between good/evil (jedi knight = sith warrior, etc -- now consider a paladin vs a blackguard, especially with the GvM changes), the combat system is repetitive and the same as every other famous MMO (not the "whole new level" they promised, which ended up just being fancy animations). Basically, Bioware promised as much as Obama, with the same amount of follow-through.
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Rade
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« Reply #31 on: 18 January 2012, 08:56 »

Physics seems to be mostly solved but I'm less sure about graphics; it's really hard to properly design and animate 3D models, particularly of humans.   We need more open-source 3d-models and animators
That's what I was saying about the 'retro-quality'. I don't think game engines are going to get much better than they are today. The only things that will change are the stories told and the ideas used to fuel them. I'm sure we can expect improved animations as you say, but I believe in a few short years they will be nailed down. The physical world is fairly easy to model because most of it is governed by laws that can be simulated in computers.

I once read an article about how video games are the new movies, but more engaged. Which is a funny comparison, considering the movie is a step-down from a novel, so does that place video games between books and film?

IMHO the most interesting stuff going on in the gaming space these days are mobile/social games... I think a lot of what we're seeing now is a bit stupid (I'm not an Angry Birds fan...) but I see a lot of innovative stuff opening in the future as developers start to embrace the platform more fully, and start trying to do things that you simply *can't do* with a console or PC game, like having people engage in real life.
I really like that "Geocaching" that was kind of trendy last year, where you could go on a real-live treasure hunt with your mobile.

A couple years ago, I had an idea for an iphone game. It was mostly a joke app, to be called "iGirlfriend". It would randomly 'call' the user and have him engage in a pre-recorded event, kind of like a music track. In a rockband/Guitar Hero/DDR style, the player would use their voice to continue to conversation - responding for certain lengths of time in a certain pitch like the singer has to do in Rockband. For example: [iGirl:] ... and then they had the nerve to ask me to pay for the coffee that they screwed up! Can you believe that? [Player:] Unbelievable! [iGirl:] I know, right? So then I knocked the cup over and ran out the store. I guess I'm never going to that Starbucks again! [Player misses cue to laugh] [iGirl:] Are you even listening to me?
I had some laughs over the concept with some friends, and we had scripters, a graphic designer, and even a girl with a really annoying voice, but we never did anything with it. School got in the way I guess.
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« Reply #32 on: 21 January 2012, 17:16 »

Pixie, I know you from the old threads in the old forum. When it comes to me starting out in GvM I am not sure if I go back as far as 2006. I may have been playing with a very old and inactive account of mine back then, getting a toon to level 27ish before leaving and coming back a year or so later with this account, but I don't recall a lot of the account names back then anyway...greetings  Smiley
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« Reply #33 on: 26 January 2012, 23:10 »

Wow, with pixie, rade, sancho etc back posting it really does feel like the old folks home!

Glad to see you all alive and kicking and basking in nostalgia   Smiley

Rabbac

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« Reply #34 on: 29 January 2012, 04:59 »

*sigh*  Well.... I've read too much...time to start logging in again.  And don't worry FC,  I retired my mages as far as PvP goes. (and tried to talk others into doing it as well)  I love the solo farming capability, because honestly I don't trust many people in a foxhole with me, so I don't want them to be nerfed...

  But then again everyone likes to run the Harper scout WM,  which is IMO equally OP.  Especially for PvP.  I'll dig out some of my medium grade toons for PvP, just to show that it can be done.  I've always said tactics win fights over builds anyways.  

If PvP starts picking up,  I might just start handing out rewards for particularly impressive kills or something.  Anyone with more than 9 monk levels that refuses to stand in combat can forget it though.  Cowards.  Evil
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« Reply #35 on: 30 January 2012, 21:12 »

I got Skyrim a few weeks ago (finally) so I'm still engrossed in that...don't expect to see me for a while yet.
I usually only PvP with my mages or my F/Wm/Hs (both OP in PvP if built correctly...I've seen a couple of bad attempts that just fail miserably, but they're mostly powerful), because those are the toons that I happen to be on when I find somebody or when I'm attacked. I'm an opportunist, mostly - I prefer to just go find somebody when I see a shout, and then worry about the toon matchup later. If I'm hunting I might try a sneak or something, but I've never really made an "average" build, so I don't really have any to use. Mine are all either amazing or useless in PvP.

Back to Skyrim now, I think.
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« Reply #36 on: 30 January 2012, 22:26 »

I'm still around.  It's hard to believe I have been playing this mod for over 6 years now.  I come and go.  Play for a few months and then take some time off.  Right now I am playing a lot of DC Universe Online, not the same as NWN but still fun.  I did reinstall the game yesterday, but I am having trouble coming up with a build.  I have never been great at it and when I sit down and try to make that "perfect" build I just get overwhelmed in all the stats, feats, changes and give up and just wing it.  What I would like to find is a group of 4-8 people that would like to log on one night a week and play together.  Start new toons from scratch for playing with just that group that way your levels stay close.  You know kinda like the old Pen and Paper days.
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« Reply #37 on: 31 January 2012, 00:12 »

But then again everyone likes to run the Harper scout WM, which is IMO equally OP.  Especially for PvP.

Oh yeh, forgot about that one.

Going to make an effort to be around this weekend if anyone else is up for some 'stuff'.

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« Reply #38 on: 11 February 2012, 19:01 »

I am back,  playing the week end, looking for bd or dale/rivendel raid
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ash nasg thrakatuluk,
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« Reply #39 on: 05 June 2012, 09:12 »

I'm back! ... and now im gone again

I'm killing people elsewhere.

Nice to see some of my old victims are still around... Enjoy your lives that I've spared!  Grin
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« Reply #40 on: 07 June 2012, 07:47 »

You dragged me off to Star Wars remember. 
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« Reply #41 on: 12 June 2012, 20:51 »

Back for now...Rade...KK...good to see you fools!
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« Reply #42 on: 02 September 2012, 07:14 »

Good to see you guys still around!
I'm almost done with army! Cheesy
Will drop by now and then, Till then, have fun guys!

GG GL HF! Cheesy
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« Reply #43 on: 24 September 2012, 10:55 »

Done a walkabout for a year and back to my farming.
Still so much I have not seen in the module and new builds to make.

Who is that frakker that spams the forum, go troll somewhere else  Angry
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« Reply #44 on: 24 September 2012, 15:01 »

welcome back !

I have baned the troll spammer team but I cant remove all the spam atm.
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« Reply #45 on: 25 September 2012, 01:16 »

If you want any help admin'ing forums then just ask. It is really easy to get rid of the spam on these php bb forums (usually just making the registration process impossible for these spam bots to self-register). Done it before on a couple of old-skool Q3 forums I use to admin.
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« Reply #46 on: 29 September 2012, 16:24 »

Have fun you guys,
Maybe i 'll be there for chaos  laugh.
playing diablo 3, skyrim and Dragonage  atm
LMAO to many games.

Hugs Yoghy
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« Reply #47 on: 30 October 2012, 16:25 »

DragonAge was an excellent game. Maybe the last good RPG before Bioware was sold to EA.

Still got to test that Skyrim, game's been on my Steam list for almost a year lol.

But Diablo 3... that was a hell of a disappointing game. Dumbed down, repetitive, and no customization. I suggest you get Torchlight 2 if you like experimenting on an RPG like NWN, DA or even Skyrim.
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« Reply #48 on: 07 November 2012, 15:37 »

well now...Chaos was farming when we were at a LAN-party the other week but I have managed to resist the call so far. I have been playing NWN on a RP-server, I had a lot of fun playing a Sembian tango teacher and sculptor  Evil But I have a new laptop now and I have been playing NWN for too long. Playing witcher 2 now, nice RPG
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« Reply #49 on: 23 March 2013, 06:49 »

Well Lookie Lookie...

   For the love of Sauron I cannot believe you Maggots are still wiggling around. Even Pixie returned for a debut. My my, I wonder just who could be next.  Chronos perhaps?  It's good to see things are still alive and well. I thought the demise of Middle Earth was at hand ages ago, but clearly I've underestimated you Festering, Feces eating Cockroaches.  Well... enough of the pleasantries, I get to the point. I was wondering if any of you Insignificant Worms would be venturing into the new Neverwinter MMO that will be releasing soon.  I thought perhaps it may be nice to see an old face or two.  Sadly, I too have not found any game that could hold a flame to the original NWN and it has been sorely missed.  Unfortunately, I haven't time for just about anything anymore except for perhaps breeding more dark spawn. My newest addition will no doubt squeeze the life out of many Pathetic men in the years to come.  With so many spawn to train I haven't time to even violate a single family let alone slaughter an entire village.  It's been so long since I've bathed in blood, I swear it's taking a toll on my youthful beauty. Well... Keep the candle burning you Useless Pigs.


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