Server Rules Question Kill Stealing

[locmer]

Hi Everyone,


I have a question about kill stealing.
Server Rules state that it is not permitted which I think is a good rule.
But when is it considered stealing?
When in a boss area who gets dips on the boss.
I figure the one first entering the map, but I might be overlooking something.
Here are some cases in which you can chew:

For instance : Player 1 comes into an area with several maps and passes Player 2 somewhere in
between to arrive first at the boss map. Does Player 1 get to kill the boss?
Or : Player 1 is being in a boss map trying to figure out how to take on the boss when Player 2
logs in a toon parked in that map. Can player 2 kill the boss or is this kill stealing

In both cases we have not initiated combat with the boss yet.


I've had 2 encounters in this particular case and was wondering what the ruling was.
And most important how to solve it when it occurs so that we know what to expect and live with it.

I hope DM's will elaborate on this and the ruling,
but I also like to hear from players what their minds say on this topic.

Cheers



The biggest risk is not taking one.

[ManiacK]

I think it is only called kill stealing when you initiated combat and someone else finishes the job while you are still fighting, there is off course a grey area, like what about someone has stopped fighting to rest somewhat or reorganize the quick bar and someone else that may not know someone is still in there finishes the kill. The same holds for rushing invisible past parties to get to a boss earlier.

I often turned around when I saw someone going for a boss, or I asked if I could join in.

I think there is a rule also stating that it is not allowed to park characters near bosses just to kill them on each respawn. If you find someone breaking any rules or behaving rude the best thing to do is call in some DM support or in case a DM is not on the server at that time, try to confront the player respectfully and take screenshots to support your story. You can later send them to a DM who can then deal with the situation and the player, when he/she does not listen to you.

Note however that I am not a DM, it is just how I think you should behave in these situations, so maybe a DM might add or change some things about this story...

[Terrorble]

If you're already in a map fighting the boss, the newcomer (whether it be just logging in or entering the area) should really be asking for permission to cut in on your dance as it were.  Otherwise I think it's kill stealing.  (The player fighting the boss needs to recognize that if they're not actually able to *kill* the boss then they should be willing to share with the newcomer)

Technically if they're from the other faction they could kill you and ask you to leave but I don't think that happens much because it's mutually understood that boss drops are hard to come by and that would be a  thing to do.

If you pass someone who is moving in on the boss but fighting the mobs on the way then I think it's polite to ask their intentions and offer to join up.  In that situation I think it's fair for both players to expect a shot at a drop.  Often I find, that if they're looking for a different item than I am then we each consider that item ours if it's the one to drop.

[parknutz]

I would kill the opposing faction immediately. After all PvP is part of the game. I say opposing factions should kill each other for the rights to that area. None of this hey can i join you stuff.

[Rabbac]

Well i usually wait until the person gives me his intentions... but with nutz i guess i dont have to 

[Rade]

So, just to clarify because I don't care about anonymity: I am player 2 in case 2 of the original post, whereas Ioc'mer is player 1. Here's what I saw:

I logged in, there's Bilgash standing in front of me - I invis. I hear fighting in the other room, it's Borrin Stonespurr as per usual (a dragon who is now higher level than me, I can't kill him anyways). So I watch, as he finishes the orc archers, he backs into a corner and sits there.... and sits there.... and sits there.... so I killed Bilgash. When I was done, I walked out in front of Borrin and he was still sitting there in the same corner, not moving - I think I saw him twitch as I went down the hall.

If Borrin had perhaps said something, moved somewhere, or otherwise blinked in the direction of the boss, I might have stopped. There is no rule about parking next to a boss that I could find either (for ManiacK's referrence). I won't consciously run past you while you're dealing with spawns and take him out, that's not fair.

I think the first thing you should do in the situation is say: "Hey! Could you wait a moment?" adding "I'm planning how to do this boss if you don't mind." then barter a deal, maybe you could join them, maybe they'll make sure you get him the next time, etc etc. The player base is generally understanding and if you have a problem (i.e: Them being a dick and refusing to stop or yelling at you) then consult a DM, they might just be nice and reset the whole fight for you.

[Mernok]

I've never really mentioned anything but it happens.. especially in Issendor.. you'll be killing monsters in the area and someone else will come from behind and head straight to a boss without saying a word. Just apart of the game i suppose.

[ManiacK]

If Borrin had perhaps said something, moved somewhere, or otherwise blinked in the direction of the boss, I might have stopped. There is no rule about parking next to a boss that I could find either (for ManiacK's referrence). I won't consciously run past you while you're dealing with spawns and take him out, that's not fair.

It could be that there is no rule for that and I might be mistaken, howeversince I have worked alot with hfodf I have seen scripts that randomize(in time) respawning bosses somewhat to prevent people from parking their character next to a boss and rejoin when their alarm clockgives a sign , so I assumed their would be a rule against that, it might also be that there isn't a rule against it and that this way everyone was given a somewhat equal chance to get to the boss.

However, I hate it more when you see someone running past you just to get to a boss. That is just plane rude... and those are the times that a succesfull flesh to stone spell does wonders

[Rabbac]

I've never really mentioned anything but it happens.. especially in Issendor.. you'll be killing monsters in the area and someone else will come from behind and head straight to a boss without saying a word. Just apart of the game i suppose.

Happens daily as soon as the reset starts its like the 100 m sprint and once they kill the boss they log off round the corner and set their egg-timers for the next respawn.

But what can u do, some people just seem to think that gvm is run just for them and they have the divine right to any and all drops but, when questioned, you just get attitude.

Its the same little group of ego maniacs who think no-one but them can have opinions on the forums or can build a dragon pm/sorc to farm farm farm. But dont worry u get used to them and if you ignore them they go away (unfortunately usually to isengard)

That being said farming aint against the rules and neither is bad manners and lack of respect for others 

[ShinsFortress]

That being said farming aint against the rules and neither is bad manners and lack of respect for others 

*opens mouth*

*closes it*

*breathes*

Farming is likely to occur in such games as this one.  If the timed re-log in to hit bosses actually happens, then I feel a little sad for such people as I think that even a computer gamers life should have a bit "more" to it than that.  But...  If it makes them happy, and those people who do have more of a "life" are happy, then good luck to them.

However, regarding the second part of the point, that is -to a certain extent- only too true.

[ManiacK]

Its the same little group of ego maniacs who think no-one but them can have opinions on the forums or can build a dragon pm/sorc to farm farm farm. But dont worry u get used to them and if you ignore them they go away (unfortunately usually to isengard)

I've never build a pm/sorc dragon... , ah lol, you were talking about other maniacs

But I have to agree, everyone has another style of playing and like opinions they sometimes tend to collide.
Sometimes we just have to accept that fact and go on with our lives. I guess there are a lot of things much more important in life

[adrox]

I've never build a pm/sorc dragon... , ah lol, you were talking about other maniacs

But I have to agree, everyone has another style of playing and like opinions they sometimes tend to collide.
Sometimes we just have to accept that fact and go on with our lives. I guess there are a lot of things much more important in life

Heh rushmore44 built a pm/dragon 

[Turril]

As for the "camping" a toon if the rule somehow got removed let me make it clear....as Ronin put it in ages ago. You are not allowed to camp on bosses. Its always hard to enforce as a Dm needs to see u log off in boss zone....sit around like he/she has nothing better in their life but count down boss respawns and catch them re logging as their alarm goes off.  That being said....the running by people to get to bosses after a reset is kinda like the GvM version (although lower class) of a horse race. Many a time i watch people go gs and run by others to get to the "promised land" Its trashy, disrespectful and a couple other things i wont say.     (but not illegal)

As for the idea of " kill stealing" If they kill the whatever while ur fighting it then they stole the kill, if you left to go rest...then u left If ur not engaged in combat it isnt a steal...But as was suggested  feel freee to talk to each other etc and not be pri*ks about it 

[locmer]

Thanks Turril,

That pretty much rounds it up I think.
Thanks for all the responses.
It's a touchy subject of which I thought it best to be out of the air, before
it would create unsuspected situations.

Sorry Rade that ye took it personal. Because I never wanted it to be that.
I used our instance only because it let me wonder about the ruling, that and it was fresh to mind.
No harm was done that day. At least not in my eyes.
I held back cause I didn't know what would be the proper thing.
I could have talked to you about it then, but I didn't.
That might be my flaw.

Still I think it's good to know what "Kill Stealing" means exactly.

So cheers, and I'll see ye on the battle ground.



The biggest risk is not taking one.

[Rade]

Sorry Rade that ye took it personal. Because I never wanted it to be that.
I used our instance only because it let me wonder about the ruling, that and it was fresh to mind.
No harm was done that day. At least not in my eyes.
I held back cause I didn't know what would be the proper thing.
I could have talked to you about it then, but I didn't.
That might be my flaw.

Hey, okay! I thought you were the mad one  , accept my apology too please.

[pinkpuff]

You should feel lucky, Rade always steals my thongs...

[sestitodc]

At least he didn't steal your heart...

[pinkpuff]

Yeah the heart thing would be rough, KK was never the same after that.

[KrazyKuban]

Do I even want to know how I got dragged into this?

I'm gonna go ahead and say that with the question answered, this topic can be locked down to prevent you silly spammers.