is the sky going to fall? (Server Wipe Question)

[ShinsFortress]

*nod*  Perhaps 1) is right too.  We can't please all the people all the time, but what to aim for?  All the people some of the time, or some of the people all the time?   

[Lief]

Howdy,

All y'all have made some interesting comments and I hope it gives the DMs/developers some ideas on how to approach this issue, if at all. Having said this, I'll still be here, locmer, whether there is a wipe or not.
 
ciao,


Lief

[HazMatt]

Fine, except for one major thing.  One of the things that is (or was before AR became historty for us) being mooted with a start over is to limit the ability to skill sink unlimited points at the level of maturity of a build.  E.g. a rogue or fighter type level at 40 for Discipline or UMD or whatever.

I'd be sad if that ability goes away.  I'd understand it but it'd make me sad. 

I understand NWN 2 does away with large skill point dumping, but in my opinion it allowed for better builds if you knew what you were doing.  And it made the work to get there harder and more rewarding in the end.

[{AR}Skeevie]

Actually, YOU need to get a clue on how to make a joke on the internet.  There are these things called smilies... like ;) and and .  Your jumping up and down smily just looks like you're super stoked about the wipe.  In your case, you probably should have used ;) or even said (J/K!!!) at the end of your post.  I didn't know you were joking when I read your post either.

As for a server wipe, I personally wouldn't mind a complete wipe because it will remind me that it's just a game (remember how involved I used to be; then you will understand that sentiment).  But if we were really going to do a wipe, I would advocate for just deleting inventory contents and leaving peoples' characters and their levels intact.  So basically when you log in after the wipe, you'd see all of your characters at the levels you left them, but their inventory would be empty.

That approach would perhaps placate the folks who worked really hard on hard-to-level builds, and it would help restore some item balance at the same time.  I think it would be fun to start from scratch again, knowing that everyone else is in the same boat.

Thanks for sticking up for me

[HazMatt]

I've talked to Turril about this and he has reiterated his plans for the wipe.  He said that it WILL happen, but ONLY when the server's ready for it.  In other words, when he has the time to retool the itemset, mobs and bosses.  His exact words were:  "If i was able to start on it today it prob wouldnt be done until xmas with the amoiunt of free time i have LOL."

The wipe would be a COMPLETE wipe, including all items, money and characters.  The goal is to FIX the server where it needs fixing; the wipe would not be a wipe just to "start over for the sake of starting over".  Additionally, there are currently no plans for reimbursement (such a policy would be a large headache in and of itself).  It is expected that we will lose some players, unfortunately, but the harsh reality is that it is IMPOSSIBLE to please everyone.  Remember that we lost players for NOT focusing on balance before.

Turril had posted his intentions before on the old forums, so he has no interest in rehashing this information again.  His mind has not changed about this.  I am following up about this because I myself had some questions about it, since I was out of the loop for a while myself (plus I can't find the original thread on the old forums).

Anyway, my recommendation is to continue to enjoy playing GvM as you always have.  Continue to farm, PVP, battle mobs, chat with buddies, or whatever else you enjoyed doing; it will be months if not years before an actual wipe will occur.

As for me, I will act as a player advocate and DM diplomat.  I have many level 40 characters that I worked very hard on that I would rather not see deleted, so I have a vested interest in the whole wipe business.  If you have concerns, feel free to post them here, but do not expect immediate answers...  remember a wipe is still very far in the future!

[pinkpuff]

Its too late.

If a wipe were to happen it should have happened about 3 years ago when it was suggested. Had it happened then the vets lost would have been replaced by new players. Does NWN have that luxury anymore? IF 50% of the current playerbase falls away will there be anywhere near enough people to make up for it?

[{AR}Skeevie]

No. We could gain a couple people, but not nearly all of them back.

[klixon]

Ok, this i can, sort of, agree with... It's tough to agree with, but it's a good reason...

That does raise one question: Are there going to be major changes to classes/feats/skills/spells in the mean time?
I'm currently holding off building a shifter-ish toon because there were speculations on some changes to this class... Expecting large changes to a class makes it difficult for me to start a toon taking that class... What if the things i went for become invalid after the change, bla, bla...

So, are any major changes expected in the mean time, or are things going to stay as they are now and all changes incorporated into the update for the wipe?

[parknutz]

I think it would put a lot of people at ease if they knew what sort of updates were being made on GvM. I know a complete list would be absurd but just a few of the major ones would benefit the players in whats to come. Hopefully this MOD gets back to it roots and becomes the PW Action server it was back when I started. Massive PvP and destruction and not necessarily rely on weird quests to get you an awesome item.

[{AR}Skeevie]

I think it would put a lot of people at ease if they knew what sort of updates were being made on GvM. I know a complete list would be absurd but just a few of the major ones would benefit the players in whats to come. Hopefully this MOD gets back to it roots and becomes the PW Action server it was back when I started. Massive PvP and destruction and not necessarily rely on weird quests to get you an awesome item.

I think the DM and Dev teams are keeping to much from the players. It's not helping anything...

[WooldorSockbat]

I think the DM and Dev teams are keeping to much from the players. It's not helping anything...

Assuming you're right (which I have a hunch you are), why are we going down this road again? Every time the DMs/Devs change something everyone disagrees, complains, and raises hell. I thought we would have figured out by now that it's best to let the community have some form of input. And not post mortem.

So for that sake, I hope they just don't spring a server wipe on us. As previously mentioned, it shouldn't be done if it's not -required-. I think the big problem is people hoarding items that are no longer available, and that could be remedied otherwise.

Edit: Oh, and if this does actually happen, the mod will be unplayable for anyone that doesn't like piling into goblin caves with 10 other people... while high level areas won't have anyone in them for a few weeks, at least. Some food for thought.

[{AR}Skeevie]

Hmm, that is a good point. Everyone would be in the goblin caves, and people would find more ways to get ahead, and find uneveness in builds and items. It will always happen.

[HazMatt]

I hope they just don't spring a server wipe on us. As previously mentioned, it shouldn't be done if it's not -required-. I think the big problem is people hoarding items that are no longer available, and that could be remedied otherwise.

I seriously doubt that a server wipe will be sprung on the player base.  Didn't I just state as much?  If anything, things will be delayed, that's the message I got from Turril.

The developers believe that changes are required to correct things, and that those changes will be substantial enough to affect the entire server, hence the delay in a complete wipe.

I agree with the desire to see a list of changes, but I know from experience that that will be opening an entirely new can of worms where people's feelings getting hurt because not everyone agrees with their way of how things should be.

I think the DM and Dev teams are keeping to much from the players. It's not helping anything...

How can they be open when the hard work for retooling the server hasn't even begun yet?  Blind speculation isn't helping anything...  Edit:  Am I not a DM who is trying to bring the information to the players???

Anyway, I'll try to talk to the developers and see what's planned.  That seems to be the biggest question mark.

[{AR}Skeevie]

That's what I said, what are they planning. When I said the Dm and Dev teams are keeping too much from the players, that's what I meant... You don't even know what they are going to do...

[pinkpuff]

HAHA, pwnt by the kid.


That rocks

[{AR}Skeevie]

Thank You Supa, was just trying to make a point. 

[ShinsFortress]

The only problem I have with all this business, is with a wipe we know is coming for sure.  But not for a long time.  It's like knowing about The Sword of Damocles.

I wish that it would be sooner rather than later.  It may not be practicable to have it sooner, but that would ease much of the despondancy I see and feel.

[HazMatt]

I was only trying to bring clarity to the situation and bring the community together, but I guess I failed, cause people are more apprehensive as ever apparently.

Tell you what.  Bug Turril or Ollebroc about it yourself if you care so much.

Pinkpuff, why do you care - you don't even play here anymore.  (serious question)

And when did I turn into such a drama queen?

[{AR}Skeevie]

You are trying, and I will give you that. But I for one am tired of not knowing what's going on, like the shifter changes. Ollebroc told me that I would want to take more shifter levels because the shapes will be better, but wouldn't tell me by how much... Why?

That's what I want to know.

If there is going to be a wipe, I'm with Shins, make it sooner than later. Because mayeb I'll stay after it...

[WooldorSockbat]

This is kinda of a big topic to just be trying to bring peace to - I do appreciate the effort, nonetheless.

Announcing there -will- be a server wipe in the future has repercussions. For example, I no longer care about farming or trying to make any cool toons... in fact, this gives an ample opportunity to take a break from GvM... sure, it may not be for a year from now, or longer. After spending all the time trying to get back to where I was before the server switch, I can personally say I have no will to have it all erased and start over again.

I think it's safe to say nobody wants to wait, now that it's been said that there will definitely be a server wipe, as Shins pointed out. While I agree to the reasons for a server wipe, I don't think it's necessary, and I think it's mighty hasty to be saying there -will- be a server wipe before discussing why and why there cannot be different changes instead. Perhaps that was discussed on the old forum, I do not recall.

[ShinsFortress]

HazMatt, you've done what you set out to do.  I totally understand the situation.

As some of my peers have agreed, it's the waiting that is part of the pain; not just the wipe itself.  And we also understand that it's not something that the devs/builders are ready to do any time very soon. I just wish it was sooner rather than later, even if those terms seem less absolute and more relative at times.

In the end, we all have the same freedom.  It's not a paid service.  We can stay or go!

[ManiacK]

True, however you can only wipe if the module is ok. And rebalancing a whole module takes a lot of time... Probably some mistakes will be made along the way, so I think that the devs can say something about a time table when they almost finish testing their adaptations.

[ShinsFortress]

100% logical.  Total agree.   

When's the wipe?   

[parknutz]

When the wipe occurs I think everything should be set back to normal, cancel all the previous nerfs. That means all classes go back to where they were, scrolls, no more +20 ab fighter bonuses. The reason for this is since it will be a "newish" server with toned down monsters and equipment, we can see what areas need attention rather than complaining this class has this advantage and this one has that....Guess what if the game was supposed to be easy they would have arranged it for a player to take all classes. Of course one class will be better than the other. Of course you will die in combat if you travel alone and get beat down by 3 other players. Of course you ...ehhhh why bother..