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Gondor vs Mordor  |  Gondor vs Mordor 1  |  GvM1 Character Builds  |  Melee Builds  |  Barbarian(28), Bard(2), Red Dragon Disciple(10), Half-Orc
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Author Topic: Barbarian(28), Bard(2), Red Dragon Disciple(10), Half-Orc  (Read 6858 times)
Wake of death
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« on: 29 October 2013, 19:10 »

Barbarian(28), Bard(2), Red Dragon Disciple(10), Half-Orc

STR: 19 (38)
DEX: 8
CON: 17 (22)
WIS: 8
INT: 10 (12)
CHA: 6 (Cool

Half-Orc: (Darkvision)
01: Barbarian(1): Weapon Proficiency Exotic
02: Barbarian(2): {Uncanny Dodge I}
03: Barbarian(3): Weapon Focus: Scythe
04: Barbarian(4): STR+1, (STR=20)
05: Barbarian(5)
06: Barbarian(6): Blind Fight
07: Barbarian(7)
08: Barbarian(Cool: STR+1, (STR=21)
09: Barbarian(9): Improved Critical: Scythe
10: Barbarian(10)
11: Barbarian(11)
12: Barbarian(12): STR+1, Alertness, (STR=22)
13: Barbarian(13)
14: Barbarian(14)
15: Barbarian(15): Iron Will
16: Barbarian(16): STR+1, (STR=23)
17: Barbarian(17)
18: Barbarian(18): Lightning Reflexes
19: Barbarian(19)
20: Barbarian(20): STR+1, (STR=24)
21: Bard(1): Epic Weapon Focus: Scythe
22: Red Dragon Disciple(1)
23: Red Dragon Disciple(2): (STR=26)
24: Red Dragon Disciple(3): CON+1, Epic Prowess, (CON=18)
25: Red Dragon Disciple(4): (STR=28)
26: Red Dragon Disciple(5)
27: Red Dragon Disciple(6): Great Strength I, (STR=29)
28: Red Dragon Disciple(7): CON+1, (CON=21)
29: Red Dragon Disciple(Cool
30: Red Dragon Disciple(9): Great Strength II, (STR=30), (INT=12)
31: Red Dragon Disciple(10): (STR=34), (CHA=8)
32: Barbarian(21): STR+1, (STR=35)
33: Barbarian(22): Mighty Rage
34: Barbarian(23)
35: Barbarian(24): Terrifying Rage
36: Barbarian(25): STR+1, Great Strength III, (STR=37)
37: Barbarian(26)
38: Barbarian(27)
39: Barbarian(28): Great Constitution I, Thundering Rage, (CON=22)
40: Bard(2): STR+1, (STR=38)

Hitpoints: 672 / 872 when raging
Skillpoints: 162
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 28/17/17
Saving Throw bonuses: Traps: +5
BAB: 30
AB (max, naked): 48 (melee), 30 (ranged)
AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 21/29
Spell Casting:
Alignment Changes: 0

Concentration 15(21), Discipline 43(57), Intimidate 25(24), Lore 8(11), Tumble 40(39), UMD 31(30)

With a +5 scythe no buffs AB 55/50/45/40 -- Buffed (Bless, aid, premonition, Rages) = 66/61/56/51  Through in a bard song
and add 2-3 depending on lvl.

Dmg is 2-8 + 30 (crit 19-20 X4)

AC 45 when raging so this is a hitter, since wind could kill him.

Other options

Going overwhelming crit, crits will be over 200.
Drop Alertness, iron will, lightening reflexes and 1 great con for power attack, cleave, great cleave and OC.
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NLawson
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« Reply #1 on: 29 October 2013, 20:48 »

I did a similar build with a Barb/Bard/WM Scyther on Mordor a while back (and with you guys talking about reviving the mod, I might have to come back and do it again!) - it worked really well, but only when you can find people to run with you because you WILL die if you get penned in by anything you can't drop quickly (or crit).

Even if you're not dropping Alertness/Iron Will/Lightning Reflexes for Overwhelming crit (not everyone likes that feat - I loved it with x5 multiplier but I'm still not sure it's worth 4 feats), you should drop them anyway - +2 reflex and will saves are nowhere near as useful as some of the other things you could get. Here are some other viable choices:

Looking over my suggestions, at the very least you should drop those 3 feats for Heavy Armour Proficiency, KD, and Toughness. Those would give the largest benefit without changing anything else about your build. IKD instead of Toughness would be my next choice, because IKD doesn't increase your attack roll when using KD, only the discipline check DC.

1) Great cleave is usually worth having just for clearing out weak mobs on runs (say, going to kill the Balrog and your invis drops mid-Moria), since you can basically just keep 1-shotting them and hitting 12 APR even without raging. That lets you keep your extra +1 con for the hp bonus, and gets rid of the useless feats - it's not the best choice, but it beats those.

2) With or without GC, you should be taking KD (and possibly IKD) on a hitter like this. You only need to land one. If you get ambushed by a dex-based anything, and you drop them with KD, they're dead - you should always consider PvP with your toons, even if you don't plan on hunting with them, just because constantly losing or running away can be disheartening. It's much better for you to be unwilling to fight someone on principle, but then to rip them in half if they try it. "Pacifist" does not mean "weak".

3) A race alternative is to go Dwarf. You swap your Con/Str starting scores around, and only put 2 points into Con instead of 4. You get many more racial bonuses that way:
  • +2 saves vs spells (all saves, not just reflex and will) and poisons
  • +1 ab vs goblins and orcs
  • +4 ac vs giants
  • another couple of starting ability points (I suggest dex for +1 ac) because your int wouldn't be dropped by 2 points.
N.B. I ignore exp penalties when building characters because I think they're a stupid idea to begin with, but also because they make no real roleplay sense either. If I go off and decide to become a fighter, and then I start learning how to cast spells, why does my previous experience as a fighter make that harder than someone starting from scratch? I don't think they were removed from the mod, but I really see no reason for them to stay, so I ignore them.

4) Another alternative to your 3 early feats, or Great Con I, is Heavy Armour Proficiency. Even with all the improvements that were made to the item drop pools, there are a lot more good heavy armours than medium ones. It's only +2/3 ac for the most part, but the DRs and immunities make all the difference. Taking Toughness as a pre-epic would net you +80 hp along with Great Con I, too.

5) I'm not sure about terrifying rage, but I've never used it so I don't know how effective it is and I can't remember all the changes that were made. Personally, I'd prefer to spend those intimidate+ concentration points in Taunt (40 Taunt) and get Epic Skill Focus Taunt (+10). It's never going to be boss-level taunting, but it'd work against mini-bosses and the occasional boss with low Concentration, and it'd make players a LOT easier (because non-spellcasters almost never have any at all). Plus it's just more chance for you to land crits with that super scythe bonus. [EDIT: Obviously if you have a dedicated taunter with you that's going to be a waste...but how often do you do massive runs versus super bosses compared to smaller ones you can 2 or 3 man? When you get there and realise all you have is a Tank and 2 Hitters, or Tank/Hitter/Healer, or Tank/Hitter/Debuff...your taunt might be the thing that speeds everything up.]

Just my thoughts. ^_^
« Last Edit: 29 October 2013, 20:53 by NLawson » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: 30 October 2013, 22:53 »

Thanks,

Good ideas, I didn't think about all the extras for heavy armour.

Toughness is another option. A lot of stuff I didn't thinkk about.

Will check and see what should be done.

Thank you
Wake
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« Reply #3 on: 20 November 2013, 05:48 »

I have to correct myself - I checked my old toon, and found out he wasn't a WM. I must've been unable to make that work...he was actually a 28/2/10, like this build. He was still awesome though.
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« Reply #4 on: 17 December 2013, 13:10 »

I just finished a build like this yesterday. A few different things from yours.

I went Dwarf for the CON, instead of Half-Orc. Also I started with 20 CON and finished with 26 CON(with +2 from RDD). STR was 15 and finished with 34.

Going Great Axe I managed to get KD/IKD, along with all other Hitter excential pre-epic feats. (Blind Fight, Weap Focus, Improve Crit, Heavy Armor, etc)

I also didn't pick Terrifying Rage, only Mighty and Thundering.

tl:dr

AB buffed: 68, 73 with tenser.
AC: irrelevant since this is a pure hitter.
HP: 1032 (that's right, 1032).
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« Reply #5 on: 17 December 2013, 22:24 »

Looking at this build and the above comments I was tempted to try my own variant of a
Barb28/Bard2/RDD10.

I went Dwarf and took many of NLawson's suggestions, such as Heavy Armor, Toughness and Knockdown, however I wanted to try and get Epic Damage Reduction (which stacks with Barbarian DR). Why not with all that Con?!
I ended with 2 less AB (46) and no thundering rage, but netted EDR III. If I could get another AB or 2 out of it and maybe Epic Skill Focus: Taunt I would be much more pleased.

Still, a nice build and I may make one soon to function solely as a hitter.

(Note: I did not level the build, only created it in excel (Character Build Creator v2.8381).)
« Last Edit: 17 December 2013, 22:28 by Ace-of-Spades » Logged
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« Reply #6 on: 19 December 2013, 11:04 »

I wanted to try and get Epic Damage Reduction (which stacks with Barbarian DR). Why not with all that Con?!
I ended with 2 less AB (46) and no thundering rage, but netted EDR III. If I could get another AB or 2 out of it and maybe Epic Skill Focus: Taunt I would be much more pleased.

That's exactly why - though of course you should always play to your tastes. If gaining DR, AC, or something like Taunt means sacrificing AB (or an attack per round, from Thundering for example) on a dedicated hitter, I'll keep the AB and attack. Obviously if you want to make something less specialised and with a bit more survivability, that's great, but it will be less effective as a hitter (because EVERYTHING is focussed towards getting the highest ab/damage possible, they're the only things you have to lose).

On the other hand, if you can't survive the trash long enough to get focussed on the boss, you're not much use as a hitter anyway. Survivability has its place too - it was the basis behind the Barb/Bard/PM Antagonist build (20/4/16) that Daccid posted on the forums a while back - it gets EMA, Epic Warding, and still has pretty good ab. It can't tank anything major for long, but it certainly takes more of a beating than most hitters could hope for. Of course, it loses out on pure power to do this.
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« Reply #7 on: 01 November 2020, 14:51 »

I just finished a build like this yesterday. A few different things from yours.

I went Dwarf for the CON, instead of Half-Orc. Also I started with 20 CON and finished with 26 CON(with +2 from RDD). STR was 15 and finished with 34.

Going Great Axe I managed to get KD/IKD, along with all other Hitter excential pre-epic feats. (Blind Fight, Weap Focus, Improve Crit, Heavy Armor, etc)

I also didn't pick Terrifying Rage, only Mighty and Thundering.

tl:dr

AB buffed: 68, 73 with tenser.
AC: irrelevant since this is a pure hitter.
HP: 1032 (that's right, 1032).


Great, second time in as many days that I create a build, only to find that mr Thiagow did (in this case) the exact same thing years back haha. Anyways, just wanted to confirm (since I now have it in test area) that if you do this build as a wemic, you end up with ab 76 (and 10 attacks) using tenser.

Attack scheme is actually quite insane if you ask me:
76/71/66/61/76/71/66/61/56/51 Oh my!

In my build, it didnt include IKD. I think I would settle for 75 ab by taking great str 3 instead of 5 and then taking IKD and epic skill focus: taunt. Downside of wemic is supposedly that he wields all weapons as single handed (didn't actually check this yet, but i can imagine this is the case). Upside is that a wemic does get to carry a tower shield and has large stature, which makes (I)KD even more effective.
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« Reply #8 on: 01 November 2020, 17:58 »

Ah yes, the classic Barbarian RDD. Used to be my favorite hitter untill the change to BG Bull STR. This one is definetly better at surviving though will all that HP.
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« Reply #9 on: 02 November 2020, 14:21 »

Never actually looked much into blackguard changes, so thanks for that bg bullstrength thingy. I knew it now gives more ab bonus, but never noticed the additional attacks at 21 and 26!

Will try a similar build with bg and see where it ends up. With the low amount of ppl on the server, I tend to focus on alround builds a bit these days. Ditching the ac loss from barbarian rage for a couple of (low ab) attacks.. I'd like to see how that plays out.
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« Reply #10 on: 07 November 2020, 11:47 »

Regarding Wemic and 2 handed weapons, you'll never get the extra strength damage from 2 handing a weapon, but with a double weapon you CAN get the extra attacks.  I have a Wemic with a double sword and the 2 handed weapon feats.  I can go without the shield and get the 2 extra attacks (and lower AB) or I can equip a shield, lose the extra attacks, but gain the extra AC from shield and extra AB (2 lost to dual wielding).  Either way I NEVER get the extra str damage.
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« Reply #11 on: 07 November 2020, 12:52 »

As an extra note about wemic and double weapon: the script that gives extra ac when you take certain classes currently also works for wemic even if you carry a shield. The script just seems to check for double weapon being equiped. Didn't  try to get an edge out of that yet, but just sharing.
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