Worries about not having fun with PvP

[GreyDeth]

Today I heard a a very disturbing story about "uncool" pvp-play ... I heard this from a now very frustrated but also once very enthusiastic (RL friend) GvM player.

He now is about to quit playing GvM entirely because of "pvp-unfairness" ...

What was going on: a player named thelizardking was constantly harassing my friend and continuously did not resurrect him because that was not really needed (Devine Protection was on) ... but it should have been fair play to do just that ... kinda showing respect perhaps or showing some care about someone who doesnt like to pvp and who has walked and fought to finally get to the place where he wanted to be with his character.
Probably thelizardking is an old player from the old-days when PvP was "hot" ... but nowadays this isn't the case anymore.

As this server is still lacking enough players ... I think that pvp should be more left alone or at least controlled (by events or by making arrangements with each other or something like that) ..... But the least thing PvP-players need to do is to resurrect the dead victims! .. be "chivalrous"! (king Arthur style)!

I really am worried about "Having Fun" lots of players have playing this server will cease if nothing is done about this so called PvP aspect without resurrecting.
I for instance will keep away playing as long nothing is done about it ... and I really am afraid my RL friend really quits playing GvM now .... I know PvP should be allowed somehow but I never ever liked it in the first place and surely not the way pvp is handled as described  above.

I really hope some regulations will be made about the way pvp should be handled these days ...
otherwise people will leave this server because of "poor" or "no fun" play.

 

[-firecracker-]

Well it's of those things isn't it - but lets have a look...

The server has always been geared towards PvP regardless of whether or not it was actually executed (e.g. in recent years it has just about been non-existant so maybe it has become the expected norm not to engage in PvP). But, when vets from old times log-in they will remember the PvP days and just 'carry-on-as-normal' from their point of view. I can imagine that if some vets who don't play NWN anymore were to re-join, PvP would just be a massive part of the mod again as there were a fair few.

Having said that, the server has undergone some general changes (due to popular demand) which I guess have had some un-realised knock-on effects when it comes to the PvP rules. With Divine Protection permanently on, the PvP winner (by the rules) does not have to ressurect their victim - this rule has not changed and I guess was not considered when players asked for perma Divine Protection to be turned on.

So I guess the question is - do we turn off perma Divine Protection again which means that players have to respect the raise rule due to the Divine Protection status, or do we change the rules so that PvP winners must raise their opponent after PvP (unless in a city) regardless of Divine Protection status.

I think we should avoid the question of whether something is fair play or not just because as I said, players from old times will see a non-raise as the norm when DP is off and just following the current rules. But, knowing that we have had a bunch of new players join the server (and establish themselves) in recent months/weeks - I see this as quite important in terms of keeping the mod/community alive. I am keen to keep our player base (which I hope will grow through word-of-mouth) so don't want to alienate those new players if they feel they are having a bad time.

What do we think?

-fc-

[Zoltar_]

I think let the rules apply as always did. Now we have a travel system, so if you had to respawn you can get to far places easily. And use some randomness  for divine protection.

[Harle]

I find it easier to just die and respawn/log, as opposed to having to leave the area for 15 minutes. I Don't see the point in running around constantly casting see invisibility all day for the sake of a few pvpers, but I also don't take issue with them killing me either. It's a part of game.

[Chaozrulez]

I find it easier to just die and respawn/log, as opposed to having to leave the area for 15 minutes. I Don't see the point in running around constantly casting see invisibility all day for the sake of a few pvpers, but I also don't take issue with them killing me either. It's a part of game.

This and singing "LET IT GO" loudly 
But knowing your RL friend I can see killing repeatedly by one player without a rez is annoying as hell...

[parknutz]

I killed his two toons who camp in Cirith Ungol to farm the Orc Thrall. Two perfectly legal kills. DP is on so I didn't raise. After I kill him he instantly sends me a tell asking "if I had fun killing him" of course I did its part of th server. He asked for a raise to which I replied DP is on.
So after I denied his request to raise him, he logs in one of his Mordor toons to come and raise his Gondor toon. I told him you can't raise him with a Mordor and asked him to play by the rules. He broke the rule so I killed said Gondor toon again. all he needed to do was respawn. He made the decision to log off and quit for something that is a legal play.


PvP adds so much more than the boring hack and slash of farming xp or waiting for respawns of bosses. There is a crystal in your inventory when used on bosses increases the drop rate. Note to you farmers that crystal is a good thing. Another thing you might want to know is that killing a boss with a party also increases drop rate.

[Bazzbas]

I started this mod a few years back, when on top moment 5 - 6 players where online. last year, maybe 3 most times solo.
PVP was as good as dead. Players where doing there own thing or grouped up to do a boss and did fun stuff.

In this years the players where friendly and did always respect someone who was doing his things and/or maked fun as a group.

Now that "old" players are getting back, pvp seems to starting up.
Do I like pvp: no, I am sorry, I dont like it in this game. If I want to PvP I will go play dota, or a shooter.

If you want to kill me, go and kill me, have fun with it. the only thing I am asking is to ress me after you have your fun. so I can have fun on the way I like to have fun.

Thats the only thing i am asking.
This is also respectful to differend players, that dont have the same idea as you.

I am not asking you to stop having your fun, but let me have my fun on my way.

If that is to much to ask, its clear for me that I am going to move on to a differend game and try to have fun there.

Good luck and have fun.

Bazbas

ps; fire, I hope you get some good idea for events from my message to you.  

[GreyDeth]

Yes my idea ... ress ! ... and if you really feel the urge to pvp ... kill ! ... but plze ress ... even with DP on.

DP is very nice thing to have "on" but the message NOT needed to resurrect ... should be removed ... at least that's what I think.

The game is developing and evolving kinda towards new situations (mostly because lack of enough players) so please let "the resurrect part" be one of these evolutions.

[parknutz]

You should probably change the name of the server to reflect what you really want. "Gondor and Mordor friends forever." Probably get rid of the vs since everyone is there to loot bosses anyway.

[Noruas]

For that, Mister DM, you should add a shop in Minas Morghul where we can buy flowers, and then we (evil mordorian) can distribute them to our lovely new friends (gondork).     

[GreyDeth]

LOL ... very constructive comments guys ... NOT

But I agree its indeed .. "vs" .. so allowing assault from opposition should naturally be discouraged ... pvp-style!! ... I get that.
(only I'm not fond of pvp ... but thats probably my problem)

Its just the ress-thing ... thats all !

[-firecracker-]

Well I think enforcing res'ing after PvP regardless of DP is all that is needed - simple rule change. The cities would remain the same however (e.g. if someone logs in to defend city and is successful then that should require respawn of attackers).

Bazbas - yes got your PM - I just need to find some time to work on this now - thanks

[GreyDeth]

So you suggest a small rule change ... sounds good! ... and fair enough cities should kept free of intruders ... resurrecting there will indeed look awkward and embarrassing.

Great suggestion!
Thnx fire!

[cosmic_pariah]

This is based on the same old story that has been played out over and over and over again for the entire length of time I have played on GvM. From 2004 to now there has been a lot of mod improvements and nerfs. Basically the server is and has always been first and foremost a PvP server. While I am not a big fan of PvP, I see it as a major part of the GvM world. For many years we have had few, or no one that did enjoy PvP but I always kept my eyes open, buff before leaving the city etc. I agree that no matter if dp is on or not, one should raise the pc that was killed except on raids to city and so forth. I guess my chime in here was to support those of us who do in fact like to PvP, even if I do not. If you are attacked, fight, run or die, simple. I can't tell you how many times  have been murdered legally.
Most of us have either been playing with each other for a decade or more and those of s who have played here on GvM for many years know that we can be attacked at any time and any place in the world by a rival PC.
IMO, those who do not enjoy PvP may just wanna send a pm, or a shout asking not to be attacked. While I would never do that, and no one is legally bound NOT to kill ya, maybe, just maybe they'll leave you for someone else.
Feel lucky Pinky is not parked out in Pelennor waitin for ya to leave gate unprepared >) hahah.
Anyway, I just wanted to toss my opinion in as well as my long time experience playing GvM.
No one should feel as if they don't wanna play because someone may kill them. Being killed is part of GvM life.
thanks, cosmic

[pinkpuff]

I killed his two toons who camp in Cirith Ungol to farm the Orc Thrall. Two perfectly legal kills. DP is on so I didn't raise. After I kill him he instantly sends me a tell asking "if I had fun killing him" of course I did its part of th server. He asked for a raise to which I replied DP is on.
So after I denied his request to raise him, he logs in one of his Mordor toons to come and raise his Gondor toon. I told him you can't raise him with a Mordor and asked him to play by the rules. He broke the rule so I killed said Gondor toon again. all he needed to do was respawn. He made the decision to log off and quit for something that is a legal play.


PvP adds so much more than the boring hack and slash of farming xp or waiting for respawns of bosses. There is a crystal in your inventory when used on bosses increases the drop rate. Note to you farmers that crystal is a good thing. Another thing you might want to know is that killing a boss with a party also increases drop rate.

You always did make me proud, even after all these years. I'm genuinely shocked these forums (and the mod itself) are even still around. Not entirely sure why it crossed my mind in this moment and made me search for it but I'm definitely happy to see people playing.

This is based on the same old story that has been played out over and over and over again for the entire length of time I have played on GvM. From 2004 to now there has been a lot of mod improvements and nerfs. Basically the server is and has always been first and foremost a PvP server. While I am not a big fan of PvP, I see it as a major part of the GvM world. For many years we have had few, or no one that did enjoy PvP but I always kept my eyes open, buff before leaving the city etc. I agree that no matter if dp is on or not, one should raise the pc that was killed except on raids to city and so forth. I guess my chime in here was to support those of us who do in fact like to PvP, even if I do not. If you are attacked, fight, run or die, simple. I can't tell you how many times  have been murdered legally.
Most of us have either been playing with each other for a decade or more and those of s who have played here on GvM for many years know that we can be attacked at any time and any place in the world by a rival PC.
IMO, those who do not enjoy PvP may just wanna send a pm, or a shout asking not to be attacked. While I would never do that, and no one is legally bound NOT to kill ya, maybe, just maybe they'll leave you for someone else.
Feel lucky Pinky is not parked out in Pelennor waitin for ya to leave gate unprepared >) hahah.
Anyway, I just wanted to toss my opinion in as well as my long time experience playing GvM.
No one should feel as if they don't wanna play because someone may kill them. Being killed is part of GvM life.
thanks, cosmic

Haha, and after all these years I just happen to click this thread and see that I''ve gotten a mention. That's pretty cool I suppose. But, I have to say that regardless of the PVP prowess that myself and others have had I really hated doing it for the most part.

When I was new to the server (seriously, 2003-2004) I got my ass wrecked so bad by so many people that I actually quit a few times. Unfortunately getting good at PVP and having all toons keep a semblance of PVP ability was absolutely necessary so that's what I did. But seriously I never liked it. Never liked grieving others as I had been grieved, felt really shitty going both ways. But again, and sadly, going out of your way to establish dominance was the only way to earn yourself some free time to go explore or farm.

However PVP can be extremely fun also. I had a character (mid 20's in level) that had a good 2-3 minute encounter with a couple Gondor players in Pelennor. Killed one and eventually fell to a vorpal rapier (was PM 9 at that point...). Pretty sure it was against firecracker and marcus de rouen. We had fought multiple times before and they had long earned my respect and vice versa so the fight could be 'serious' yet amazingly fun. I guess what I'm saying is you have to get to that point. You have to earn respect and you have to remain able. My character in the mentioned example didn't get crit immunity till level 39 and I knew full well that venturing into PF would likely lead to my death and at least definitely lead to a fight. I'd imagine camping bosses should lead you to the same expectation, especially if the character in question is a poor performer in PVP.