OMG Get real

[Wake of death]

   Hello,

     I have been thinking about this post for a while. The reason I never posted it was because I don’t like to ruffle feathers or make waves. So, I know I am going to piss people off with this, but I don’t care anymore!!

     I am going to apologize now for what I will say, most likely it WILL make some if not most of those that read it mad. But I have been told that apologizing for my opinions isn’t necessary. I also now the mentality of this server and how easy people here get butt hurt over the littlest things, so I will anyways.

      I am having a hard time understanding why everyone is trying to make this world fare and balanced. If you don’t have the ability to improvise, overcome and adapt then get out.

   I never watched the movies or read the books from LOTR but from my understanding the task of getting the ring to the volcano wasn’t “fare and balanced.”  The real world isn’t either. I have never played a game where it was easy to finish, maybe I just pick the ones that make me think, don’t know.

   The ability to improvise, overcome and adapt in a derivative of critical thinking, and if you can’t do that then stay at home, the real world isn’t for you. 

   I was talking with someone in game the other day and they made a statement that hit home for where this mod is going right now, “When the bar is set I do what I can to reach it. Once I reach the bar it gets raised higher.” That got me to thinking, that statement hit the nail on the head, for me!!

      I like my games to be challenging and difficult, like them to make me think, something I have been told I am good at. I like to figure stuff out and try new things to see if the ideas work or not. That’s why I love this server, it is constantly changing and making me think of how to beat this or counter that. The more the mod is mod is made “fare and balanced’ the less we think and the less we learn how to “improvise, overcome and adapt!”

     I hope all the talk of things that should be changed and nerfed is that, just talk. I had a hard time understanding why some weapons and the dragon got nerfed. But then I realized that the few stupid people that would attack a dragon get served and bitch about the fact that the dragon took no damage. HELLO dragons are old wise and tough as hell. They are supposed to be hard to beat, but I also think that dragons shouldn’t be for PvP. As for the weapons, if you get severed and don’t learn anything from it, then you should be severed again for general principles. Every weapon has a counter you just have to look for it and IMPROVSE, OVERCOME and ADAPT!! If you don’t then don’t bitch about what happened.

    If you really want to make this a balanced server take out everything and leave monk or fighters. They are good classes and when done pure in a low magic world will rock. Also you will need to get rid of the vorpal weapons, a 1 hit kill isn’t fare and balanced either.

      Just for the record these are my feelings on the whole fare and balanced issues. If that is truly what you want then you should try a new server. There are quit some out there and have been told they are very good.

Thanks
Wake

[ShinsFortress]

I don't mind a challenge here or there.  But I do not like my games to be difficult.  Not *bleep* easy maybe, but certainly not difficult.

I don't know about other people, but I play games to have fun and relax.  Real life has enough difficulties.  I don't need them in the games that I play.

[pinkpuff]

I think its ridculous as well.

Revamp the whole mod to make a 3% difference..yippy.

If the LOTR theme is so important then get rid of the goddamn clerics....who the hell was a cleric in LOTR?

[Whisper]

There is a huge difference between silly micro management balancing and general logical balancing.


Logic is not bad, insanity on the other hand can be.

[HazMatt]

If the LOTR theme is so important then get rid of the goddamn clerics....who the hell was a cleric in LOTR?

Aragorn surely had some Cleric levels!  He knew how to use Kingsfoil didn't he? 

[Abimael]

If the LOTR theme is so important then get rid of the goddamn clerics....who the hell was a cleric in LOTR?

If the LOTR theme is not so important as you said then the server should definetely change its name

[parknutz]

Aragorn knew to use kingsfoil because of his Ranger levels not cleric levels.

[Whisper]

Aragorn didn't have levels you nerds.

[Noruas]

I join the viewpoint of Walk of Death, I love this server because he is not boring or anoying.
If you are bored then you can try to play nwn on another server.
Keep GvM as it is !!!!

[WooldorSockbat]

I don't mind a challenge here or there.  But I do not like my games to be difficult.  Not *bleep* easy maybe, but certainly not difficult.

I don't know about other people, but I play games to have fun and relax.  Real life has enough difficulties.  I don't need them in the games that I play.

I agree. The only reason it got as impossible as it is, is because some people are willing to build around areas and really adapt to get through much harder areas than they should. Devs then make the area harder, players adapt, etc.

Problem is, not everyone wants to be all extreme about playing. I'm with Shins on this... I like to just chill out, play an area I can get by without much critical thinking, and call it a night. Besides, tracking damage types is too difficult with the way Bioware made the combat log.

[charliebuckett]

I agree Wake.  Well put IMHO.  Some lose some win that's the way life is.  I like the server the old way better really.  The horses are interesting and add a nice element.  FON was really uber only if you didn't have an elemental ring on.  Accu's made monks dangerous.  Well the squeaky wheel gets the oil.  And there are certainly squeaky wheels here.  282 times squeaky  jk

[Kermit]

He he suckered me in. KNEW I couldnt resist huh? Very well...

Challenge and difficulty are not always synonymous. Challenge is enjoyable. NY Xwords vs gradeschool ones. Difficulty. Can be annoying but overcoming may be satisfying. Relaxation. Ease and calm. So where do we find the middle?

The difficulty associated with getting a FoN is such that once the challenge was met and you finally got one, you could relax and farm for other items. Ah but then the relaxation was taken by making the FoN a no longer sought after item because.... well it became useless for PvP. A ring of elemental resistance was enough to counter most of the damage. Shunting the abilities of characters and altering the items, tho in some cases (like afore mentioned FoN) were neccessary, raised the bar for those not even yet able to reach the first bar. 

So the task of ballancing out what is too high for the newbs and what is a challenge for the old timers begins. There aren't any trips to Barad Dur anymore. The difficulty even for a large party, is too high. It's no longer a challenge, it's an impossibility. 

I understand the mission objective is to make this PW a continual interest. But taking things to far will have the same result as not taking them far enough. Getting people into the mindset that obtaining everything is too easy is as bad as putting them into the mindset of making it unattainable. Where most of the issues are about not hard enough or interesting enough, I have been shouting to be sure you dont make it too hard or you wont have the influx of newb(or as mordor calls them... fresh kills)

Even tho I complain the bar is raising too fast, I enjoy the idea of a challange and like GvM. I voice my frustrations in whine and rants because for some odd reason, there are a lot of people on GvM who dont wish to be helpful in knowledge of where things are and of what it takes to get them. I would like to think that this stifling of the flow of information is a way to preserve the mystique of GvM but Im more inclined to see it as a means to keep the item/build advantage- personal opinion there. I have no fact to back that up-    and I really do appreciate those who have gotten items they wish to share with me, but part of the fun for me is to acquire them on my own. (trades maybe?)

Turril is one person. I'm sure he has assitance, but the final is on him. There is no way that one person can accomodate everyone 100%. As I have said MANY times. This may be your favorite server, but it aint yours. Dont like it... try building your own and make it your way. There are a great many restrictions in place for GvM. No haks, just for starters, and many other ideals that while, not of Turril's making, are adhered to even with the absence of the original makers. And not to get my nose stinky, but I think he and the rest of the staff do a (explative) good job.

Not only are we players here, but we are the feedback that helps them create this world. I know I couldnt do it. I know many of the things I would want to change would turn GvM into a ghost town. And yeah- I whine about the difficulty. I want to just relax and not worry about leaving a dead lv 40 in a zone every 15 minutes. But hey- not my server- not my rules.

And for those who think GvM is the wrong name... what should it be called? Pros vs Newbs? GvM gives it a cause, familiarity and and ability to have a pride in your side. I think it's aptly named.

[{AR}Skeevie]

Wake, I agree. Nothing's fair, and we should addapt. Yes, some classes aren't worth playing, but there are so many fricken classes. If someone could possiabl;y make every good build, then you move on to another mod.

[Snake]

Rebalancing will be good... the game itself will never be completely balanced

In the server's current state i think its pretty boring

[Viper4365]

hmm a very interesting subject indeed...

If you can't overcome a challenge ask for help. Not everyone will be nice enough to lend a hand, but there are those who take pride in helping other players. If you work togeather with someone then you may just reach your goal, after all, that was the whole point in a party last time I checked. Just try to avoid those posers who think they are pro in the sense that they are the strongest. A true pro at any game should be helping others catch up, not pushing them back.

[{AR}Skeevie]

I thought it was rubber. 

[{AR}Skeevie]

Lol. 

[KrazyKuban]

And yet another topic gets muddled by Shins and Skeevie going on about nothing in the middle of what's supposed to be a discussion.  Thanks guys, you add so much to the table.

Anyway, back to the discussion at hand...

   Hello,

     I have been thinking about this post for a while. The reason I never posted it was because I don’t like to ruffle feathers or make waves. So, I know I am going to piss people off with this, but I don’t care anymore!!

     I am going to apologize now for what I will say, most likely it WILL make some if not most of those that read it mad. But I have been told that apologizing for my opinions isn’t necessary. I also now the mentality of this server and how easy people here get butt hurt over the littlest things, so I will anyways.

This is completely unnecessary, in my honest opinion.  It just invites people to go ahead and get angry as opposed to looking at your post a topic of discussion because you're telling people expect them to react in that manner.  If you no longer care about "ruffling feathers" or what have you, then just do it.

      I am having a hard time understanding why everyone is trying to make this world fare and balanced. If you don’t have the ability to improvise, overcome and adapt then get out.

   I never watched the movies or read the books from LOTR but from my understanding the task of getting the ring to the volcano wasn’t “fare and balanced.”  The real world isn’t either. I have never played a game where it was easy to finish, maybe I just pick the ones that make me think, don’t know.

   The ability to improvise, overcome and adapt in a derivative of critical thinking, and if you can’t do that then stay at home, the real world isn’t for you. 

Spelling errors aside(isn't there an auto-spell-check built in? I know mine does it)...this point is interesting.  I happen to agree with you that the NPCs should not be "fair" in their abilities - especially bosses.  I think it should take a team if not an entire party to take out some of the tougher guys, and that no one should be able to solo a higher-level boss.  But most of the "balancing" is done for PvP.  Now I know you do not like PvP, as you have said again and again, but the fact of the matter is this is a PvP server.  NWN makes it inherently difficult to balance for PvP, but here we are trying to make that happen, and like I said before, the bulk of people are essentially bashing those attempts without even discussing, claiming "nerf" and such.  As opposed to "improvise, overcome, adapt", I prefer "Adapt or Die".  Of course, this could be applied not just to the current server situation, but for any intended plans.  Adapt or Die could thus be modified to "Adapt or Leave".  Trust me when I say that in these dying days of NWN, the bulk of the nay-sayers will not be missed.  And if you "love GvM so much", you will either be back, or never leave even if things change.

   I was talking with someone in game the other day and they made a statement that hit home for where this mod is going right now, “When the bar is set I do what I can to reach it. Once I reach the bar it gets raised higher.” That got me to thinking, that statement hit the nail on the head, for me!!

      I like my games to be challenging and difficult, like them to make me think, something I have been told I am good at. I like to figure stuff out and try new things to see if the ideas work or not. That’s why I love this server, it is constantly changing and making me think of how to beat this or counter that. The more the mod is mod is made “fare and balanced’ the less we think and the less we learn how to “improvise, overcome and adapt!”

This is a PW Action server.  By and large, it should be intended as a typical hack-and-slash.  Like someone mentioned earlier, a puzzle on a persistent world is silly.  You figure it out the first time, and then its just another roadblock.  Want to make puzzle-like DM events? By all means, I'm sure people will eat it up.  But once someone figures out a puzzle that's supposed to lead to uber gear or whatever, suddenly its open season for everyone to get this uber gear(a la Mimic quest pre-rollback)

"Thinking" should only go so far on an action server.  We want Hack-n-Slash or PvP, or else we'd find another server where they offer us "RP" or "thinking".  Or perhaps we should change what section our lovely server is contained in.

     I hope all the talk of things that should be changed and nerfed is that, just talk. I had a hard time understanding why some weapons and the dragon got nerfed. But then I realized that the few stupid people that would attack a dragon get served and bitch about the fact that the dragon took no damage. HELLO dragons are old wise and tough as hell. They are supposed to be hard to beat, but I also think that dragons shouldn’t be for PvP. As for the weapons, if you get severed and don’t learn anything from it, then you should be severed again for general principles. Every weapon has a counter you just have to look for it and IMPROVSE, OVERCOME and ADAPT!! If you don’t then don’t bitch about what happened.

Ah, now this is a gem to discuss.  In theory, yes, a dragon is a "wise, powerful being".  But let's consider this for a moment, shall we?  An old, wizened, treasure-hoarding dragon is a most frightful beast.  And they've lived for hundreds if not thousands of years.  But then along comes a druid, a preserver of balance and nature, who can suddenly at will shift into one of the most powerful creatures in the land?  I think not.  A druid's shape should not be ANYWHERE NEAR as powerful as one typically thinks of a "dragon".  It goes against the very thoughts promoting balance.  And I may very well be wrong about this, but I think Druids would take issue with shape-shifting into a sentient, intelligent creature.  Normal animals have minds and souls that a Druid can communicate with, but only ot a certain point, and they understand that.

Now that's just the "RP" logic.  Let's return for a moment to the "balance" logic.  The current GvM script, as has been mentioned many times, makes dragons and most shifted shapes stronger than they were originally.  So technically speaking, its not a "nerf" so much as another "change" to something that we already "changed".  Its the same as when Tenser's was boosted, found to be a little too much, and taken back a bit.  That's not a nerf, in my opinion, its just a little delayed where Dragons are concerned.

      Just for the record these are my feelings on the whole fare and balanced issues. If that is truly what you want then you should try a new server. There are quit some out there and have been told they are very good.

And, as for "fare and balanced" issues, and I only say this because it bugged me the whole while I read it, a "fare" is something you pay, "fair" is more along the lines of what you were thinking.

And again, I agree that NPCs should not be "fair" and "balanced".  That's the nature of the world I suppose.  But again I also see the changes made as being a way to cope with NWN's attempt to make everyone equally capable as far as the Original Campaign was concerned.  When you throw in a group of people, and the aspect of PvP, you should be forced to try to make things a little more balance.  The person who came up with a high-damage spell with no save should be shot.

/rant

Edited to change color to make it easier to read between quotations

[{AR}Skeevie]

KK, why do you always correct people? You said his first whole part of the post is unnessisary. He can post what he want's, can't he? I usderstand, as much as he can post what he wants, you can, but why would you?

[KrazyKuban]

Prefacing your post with "this is going to make people angry, but..." is essentially just a "cover my rear" deal, imho.  But, you made me realize that it is just my opinion, and therefore I've edited my post to describe that.

[{AR}Skeevie]

I do agree... I just think that is he wants to cover his rear, he can . Thanks for editing

[Kermit]

According to minsc- squeaky wheel gets the kick 

[Wake of death]

Hello,

     I am sorry, I wasnt expecting a collage edumacted person such as yourself to critique my post. Like I said it will piss ppl off and it truely did fore you.

     I did use spell check but I didnt use a write point. Keep your schooling outta this. I am not the smartest on the server so I will have mistakes and if it bothers you so much to see it then dont read my posts.

     What I said in the bagining was a warning not a CYOA attempt.

     Now, this post is how I feel, and if we cant post how we feel about things then what are they here for??

     No, I dont like PvP but I do love the server because it is a challenge from a PvM point of view. If this was suposed to be a PvP only server then why have all the places to go?? Have ppl log in and go at it, gaining lvls by how many ppl they kill, like fury??

     As far as the PvP thung, I think I am getting better most will think not. Again dont care. Any more problems with my writing can be taken up thro pm

Thanks
Wake

[ShinsFortress]

Fine.  I will delete my muddling.  Rest assured, it will not happen again.

[nexus9000]

I agree with the general idea here.  I think some of the things being proposed behind closed doors are not going to make the play experience better but worse.

I would consider removing blank scrolls to be one of those since I have yet to hear anyone finding them in a store or finding them via drop as was indicated.  Implementing the UMD changes for scrolls should have been enough, IMHO.


Another idea that is currently being floated is removing healkits or making them a drop.  I can't imagine how many builds will be negatively impacted and how much trouble this will cause players.

I don't mind change.  But what I do mind is change being made without any discussion with the user community or even the user community being informed until someone asks.  This isn't a playground for DMs or Devs.  It's a playground for players.