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Gondor vs Mordor  |  Gondor vs Mordor 1  |  GvM1 Players Forum  |  Anyone else think having horses suck?
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Author Topic: Anyone else think having horses suck?  (Read 25278 times)
ShinsFortress
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« Reply #50 on: 19 September 2008, 09:42 »

Stop telling me crap that you don't believe and I'll show you the respect you think you deserve.

It is you who do not derserve the respect.  Argueing that someone else is wrong is one thing.  The way you talk to people is another.  And it's getting worse.  The fact that you think basic respect and common courtesy would be "blind" makes me quite sad.  Not all powergamers are *bleep*s, but for some strange reason I did not need for you to inform any of us that you were one.  I could tell.

I truly feel that the number of people with any real understanding of why things are and how they need to be is far too low.

Well, that's nice for you.  You may be a powergamer, but not everyone else is.  Maybe more people than you think know exactly how things are and are either a) are happy with things this way, b) don't care either way: they're just here to play or c) do not think the effort:reward ratio is worth the campaigning it would take to try to change things.  And as for "how they need to be"...  "Need?"  A weasle word here.  You want.  I don't need.

I don't always agree with Abimael, but on I'd agree with him on two fronts here.
« Last Edit: 19 September 2008, 18:42 by ShinsFortress » Logged

MORS VINCIT OMNIA
Kermit
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« Reply #51 on: 19 September 2008, 16:58 »

Shins... You hit what I have been saying right on the head- "the effort reward ratio" SUX!

I spent six months in Caras before I got a starblade. And the fact that A) drop rates for non soloable bosses are VERY low and B) you have to roll to get the item.... makes it unlikely that anyone but the "prior to kermit's arrival" players, will bother with it. The time it takes to get these items, tho doable for those who have the time, isn't doable for those who dont. There has to be a median point somewhere. I dont agree with flooding the server with all the Uber gear, but making it attainable to a minor few is just as unacceptable. 

And tho some of what Pinky said may have sounded insulting, its true. Most of the people arguing FOR horses are doing so because WITHOUT horses, the builds will suck. I have been on the bad side of Pinky's REALLY insulting side and I can say that he gave the respect to say "sorry if this is insulting" making it clear that at the time he hadn't found a better way to say it.

There was a reason Horses were never implimented into GvM to begin with. And what we are seeing with THESE horses is EXACTLY why.
« Last Edit: 19 September 2008, 17:08 by Kermit » Logged

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ShinsFortress
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« Reply #52 on: 19 September 2008, 18:47 »

If I shoot you, and say "sorry I shot you", that doesn't make it okay.  It just shows that I can't be bothered to be careful where I point!  Hardly respect, maybe just me trying to avoid jail.  But, if you're okay with it, that's oki doki for you!  Smiley

Back on topic....  The points have been well made, that maybe horses shouldn't have combat bonuses.  But are the horse builds really proliferarting that much?  I must be (un)lucky; depending on your point of view!   Grin
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Abimael
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« Reply #53 on: 19 September 2008, 19:38 »

Well, good thing I don't have to earn your respect to be respected by others here. My rule is simple: respect  others and you'll be respected. I'm not here to "fool people", I'm here trying to add more facts a delicate and dividing issue. I imagine people are smart enough to make their own conclusions based on everything that is beeing said here. If they aren't, this is not my problem.

The point about the "Undeaths Eternal Foe" is a good one. Honestly, I don't know if it can be, lets say, "counterattacked" (in fact, I wondered what that "max ac dodge" meant). I'll have to put some thought on this, I had just copied the stats from the builds threads on my last post.

I haven't said horses weren't powerful. Of course they are powerful, that's why I'm making one: because they are worth it. But the way you've been saying that "just by taking 43 ride will get 9 dodge ac" is misleading. Isn't it "crap" too how you've been defending it? To max it out you need at least 1 lvl of the classes above, 1 feat and 2 extra int points or trade one maxed skill for that.

While it may not seem much, IN MY OPINION (because you think I'm trying to control everyone's mind) it seems to narrow a lot the possibilities of exploring that benefit, with the exception of the Paladin, which unites cleric buffs, full bab progression and taunt, and Fighter, because the ring made them powerful and they have "unlimited" feats. I could be wrong; thats the beauty of it: since you're a experienced player, show more builds/facts that I might have neglected.

Making a pure horserider has also some drawbacks I've noticed. The obvious is that you're limited to wilderness areas, so most of the xp/action will be lost to you. If you're not making it a paladin or bg, you'll lose your horse when you die, which can be quite irritating if yu're not a lvl 40, and you won't be able to use it in Underdark. So basically they have 2 uses imo: pvp and city raids, although many see them as useless on the last.

So, if they are powerful, then why it would I be wrong in exploring its benefits? Since you talked about it, yeah, I've made 3 more horse rider builds: 29 aa/1sorc/10 pally ; 9 bard/4 bg/ 27 aa ; 28 barb/7 wm / 5 bg. The 2 first deal with a known problem of aa's that is the low ac, might be good for raiding. The barb was an idea I had when I wrote my last post. Btw, many here must remember how I was eager to see Horses beeing added to the game, so at least the result you talked about could be foreseen 6 months ago.

You see me as a "only pally" builder. Fine, think that of me. I'll just say that you stayed out for 3-4 months and making multiple builds with the same abilities would be boring and not funny at all.

My main reason I'm defending the horses are basically what Nobu said: they are an addition to an old the game that many people have already explored most of its possibilities. Take them out and you'll subtract from it, take them out and you'll subtract attractiveness of it. That's why I'm always up to some crazy ideas that sometimes pop up now and then.

Of course, nothing is perfect. That's why discussing is important so everyone express their analysis and thoughts about it.


Side note 1: Shin, I still think rangers should get a mount too lol Tongue
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ShinsFortress
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« Reply #54 on: 21 September 2008, 02:47 »

 Shocked

As well as or instead of a Companion?   Evil
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« Reply #55 on: 22 September 2008, 16:58 »

I dont care what your paper stats say- I'm looking at the practicle, in game info that is there- And its clear that having the horse, with OR without skill point, hikes your AC and HP. Sorry to burst your stat bubble of it not being that much help, but mounted toons have a major advantage.  Maybe not at lower levels but at lv 40 where 1-2 AC and extra HP mean a lot, it is a major advantage.
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pinkpuff
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« Reply #56 on: 23 September 2008, 00:01 »

I would say an extra 170hp at lvl 6 or so is a pretty big advantage Smiley
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parknutz
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« Reply #57 on: 23 September 2008, 08:19 »

mounted combat parrying midgits ftw!
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nexus9000
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« Reply #58 on: 23 September 2008, 13:13 »

mounted combat parrying midgits ftw!

First, as I said before, that kind of advantage that horses give needs to be equally effectively available to all classes in order to maintain balance.  That simply isn't the case.

Second, I'm always interested in how these threads mutate into multiple threads of which many do not relate to the original topic.

Third, I'm gonna make a 2hp gnone that rides a horse, has a summons, has a familiar, and then go assault MM or MT!  I bet I'd win! ;-)
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charliebuckett
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« Reply #59 on: 26 September 2008, 18:19 »

Ok I've changed my opinion...I have a dexer fighter wm rouge.  At level 32 I tanked two Mordor Elite Guards without uncanny dodge mind you...That's more than a bit overpowered.  AC should go down and the HP bump removed for sure.  I really don't want them removed but the uberness should be reduced.
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nexus9000
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« Reply #60 on: 26 September 2008, 20:40 »

Ok I've changed my opinion...I have a dexer fighter wm rouge.  At level 32 I tanked two Mordor Elite Guards without uncanny dodge mind you...That's more than a bit overpowered.  AC should go down and the HP bump removed for sure.  I really don't want them removed but the uberness should be reduced.

Yep - its insane....
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pinkpuff
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« Reply #61 on: 27 September 2008, 00:02 »

I figure its ok as long as rogues get double sneak damage and horrid wilting does 1d12 per lvl with no cap.

Or maybe this would be a good time to introduce the +20 weapons, i mean, after all with the 70+ab fighters and 10 attack per round barbarians it is nothing more than a melee server anyways.
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« Reply #62 on: 02 October 2008, 20:06 »

Howdy all,

I would like to propose one additional modification to horses other than addressing the issue of HPs. Would it be desirable and is it possible to write/modify the horse script so that when enough dmg has been done to equal the horse's HPs, the horse is killed and the rider becomes horse-less? (Incidentally, as is the case already, all dmg applies to the horse first.)

e.g. Rider A and Rider B each have 300 HP and their horses each have 100 HP (= 400 HP)
    if opponent does 99 points of dmg on A, then no change
    but if opponent does 100+ points of dmg on B, then B's horse is killed and B is now on foot

At present, most riders take advantage of the HP boost to attack and then when wounded sufficiently,they make use of the perma-expeditious retreat to withdraw and to heal; I can see it as being as annoying as fighting Mash Ter  Cheesy


Ciao,

Lief
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pinkpuff
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« Reply #63 on: 02 October 2008, 22:42 »

I was thinking this myself but didnt figure anything would ever come about. I completely agree with horses dying after taking so much damage.

And does anyone have the slightest clue why a heavy war horse has improved evasion?
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tonoplast
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« Reply #64 on: 03 October 2008, 11:52 »

lol..
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Kermit
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« Reply #65 on: 03 October 2008, 16:57 »

I was thinking this myself but didnt figure anything would ever come about. I completely agree with horses dying after taking so much damage.

And does anyone have the slightest clue why a heavy war horse has improved evasion?

They're Rogues.  Grin
Or Lippizano Stallions (sp?)
« Last Edit: 03 October 2008, 17:00 by Kermit » Logged

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« Reply #66 on: 03 October 2008, 18:43 »

Ftr ring is perma ab! let's increase rage duration ^^ perma rage will be cool
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