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Gondor vs Mordor  |  Gondor vs Mordor 1  |  GvM1 Character Builds  |  Rogue builds  |  21 ranger 13 rogue 6 monk
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Author Topic: 21 ranger 13 rogue 6 monk  (Read 19198 times)
Kermit
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« on: 14 November 2008, 23:44 »

or 21 10 9- just replace 3 rogue levels with 3 monk levels

Halfling LN
 All skill point will be Dex so I'm just going to input the feat levels excluding Ranger fav enemy bonuses.
 
str 8
dex 20
con 10
wis 12
int 14
cha 8

1 Dodge
3 weapon focus Kama
6 mobility
9 imp crit
12 spring attack
15 blind fight
18 Ambidexterity
21 Epic weapon focus
24 epic prowess
26 defensive roll
27 weapon finese
29 imp evasion
30 epic dodge
33 armor skin
36 toughness
39 bane of enemies

class progression
1 ranger
2-5 monk
6-16 ranger
17-29 rogue
30-37 ranger
38 monk
39 ranger
40 monk

You could swap lv 39 and 36 for epic energy resistances.
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charliebuckett
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« Reply #1 on: 14 November 2008, 23:58 »

Didn't you leave??? And at level 40 this would be a terrible toon.  The class progression is nothing short of  iamwithstupid.  You loose 2 ab and some saves.
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Kermit
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« Reply #2 on: 15 November 2008, 01:04 »

I guess you forgot about favored enemy- by the time you get bane, you have every race except half elf.  And- re-read. I said I would be stopping in from time to time- like earlier today there was only 1 person in.

But since this is more item search than PvP, it makes for a fun rogue to play. Which is my favored class. You can pick your favored enemies to make this a toon that can take Shorty and take the rogue gauntlet. Not every toon is for PvP.

Dont like it, dont build it. I am currently playing this toon on another server and doing rather well. Held my own at lv 27 against a lv 40. that was til I got KDd. But that aside, a few darkness scrolls/wands and if they dont have UV, you get a steady stream of sneaks.
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Rade
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« Reply #3 on: 15 November 2008, 02:17 »

Well a couple of things:
Spring Attack is useless if you take high Tumble and are dex based.
Rangers' Dual-Wield includes Two weapon fighting and ambidexterity if you're not wearing armor; so taking Ambidexterity is useless.

I like to avoid taking non-epic feats as much as possible during epic levels, dropping spring attack and ambidexterity opens room for Weapon Finesse (which you will need early!) and Toughness (useful considering your low base HP)
That opens up room for 2 epic feats, which could be the Epic Energy Resists you mentioned, Two Great Dexterity feats to improve your AB and AC by 1.

Also, if I have 20 levels or higher of a high BAB class, and am not multiclassing with a cleric (divine power exploit), I will generally take as many levels as possible pre-epic as I can (full 20 in this case).
I'd take straight up 20 ranger, and as soon as I hit 21 I'd start with 3 rogue and continue with rogue from there until epic dodge, finishing with monk and squeezing that 1 ranger in at a feat level to get Bane of Enemies.
Depending on the monk speed restrictions of the server, I think I would favor more monk so that you can exploit the speed significantly and be able to corner-sneak PCs or just flat-out run away in a bind.
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tonoplast
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« Reply #4 on: 15 November 2008, 03:29 »

You might want 14 wisdom so you can use the blade of thirst spell (14 if u wanna extend it), which gives u 1d10 magical damage.. and also can have invis purge Tongue
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charliebuckett
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« Reply #5 on: 15 November 2008, 04:10 »

Thanks Rade for clarifing I forget some people are completely clueless when it comes to building.  I ASSUME everyone knows that only certain classes get full ab (neither monk or rouge count they get you 0 bab 1 level taken preepic) progression.  Regardless this build will be around mid 50's ab at level 40. 
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Abimael
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« Reply #6 on: 15 November 2008, 14:08 »

Take off monk, put 1 sd and then lvl rog/ranger as u wish. At 40 your only gonna hit anything by using sneak attacks while hidden.
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Kermit
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« Reply #7 on: 15 November 2008, 19:34 »

Well- you're right- I am clueless. I was an RPer before coming here and tho people have been johnny on the spot to say what wont work, they havent been too helpful with what does or why it does. Take it from the begining of DnD and RP all the way til 2 years ago and you get some one who knows how to build RP toons not power builds. Hell, I was kicked of an RP server for building a 1 ranger, 1 SD, 38 rogue cuz it was a "power build". So forgive me if what I throw out there isnt up to YOUR standards. This is a fun toon to play unless you run into a lot of UV/TS NPCs. And yeah, 1 more point of wisdom might be a good thing for the blade thirst.

How about some one starting a "Power Builds 101" thread? Might save some of us RPers a lot of time in trying to figure it out.
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tonoplast
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« Reply #8 on: 15 November 2008, 20:38 »

I think people are trying to help with the build, y r u being so defensive about it?
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Terrorble
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« Reply #9 on: 16 November 2008, 00:11 »

I did a pretty similar one elsewhere.  21ranger/10rogue/9monk for the little bit of extra speed and free imp evasion at the cost of 2d6 sneak.  Corner sneaker with traps and probably a sling and kukri.  Nothing special but alright.
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Kermit
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« Reply #10 on: 16 November 2008, 00:18 »

I think people are trying to help with the build, y r u being so defensive about it?
Its not THE build but buildING that Im  getting on about. I see the help provided, but that stills says nothing to why it didnt work to begin with. Ok- so I'm to undertand that I need 20 ranger before I go into monk or rogue to get 2 more AB?

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tonoplast
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« Reply #11 on: 16 November 2008, 05:01 »

Rangers get full bab like ftrs/barbs/paladins, 1 ab per 1 lvl.

if u want to take monk/rogue lvls pre epic, u take them in sets of 4 lvls (u get 3 ab) to avoid ab losses. (which i think you did)

That's pretty much it i think. So u take full 20 ranger pre epic, u get higher bab than the ones with rogue/monk lvls.

good luck.
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« Reply #12 on: 16 November 2008, 16:33 »

One thing I can tell you, on a server with no HIPS, you can absolutely rock with a dual wield ranger build wielding Kukris.


On here, not so much.
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Terrorble
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« Reply #13 on: 18 November 2008, 18:43 »

I've tried to do the corner sneaking type build using a combo of monk speed and haste wands here before but haven't had a lot of success.  I think you really need to have a small arena, otherwise people run or you have to run so far to hide that they heal anything you just did.
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« Reply #14 on: 19 November 2008, 10:29 »

The problem with most dexers is damage I would ditch the dex approach and go 1 sd lvl (2 if your gonna wear light-med armour) for hips (more effective than epic dodge i think) and either more monk lvls (would get you some perma sr and a few other feats) or more ranger lvls (more bane of enemies).

Sure your ac might suffer a bit but at the higher lvls you would need a scary amount of ac to survive anyway. A bit of darkness and being able to hips and pound with a highe str is far better imho, you also have a better choice in weapons being str based. If they have ts then at least you will be a competent melee toon and you could always run away with your monk lvls  Grin
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KrazyKuban
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« Reply #15 on: 20 November 2008, 03:38 »

The beauty behind the ranger is that despite being a dexer, they can still dish out damage.

With Bane of Enemies and Blade Thirst, and throwing in some sneak damage if get an effective sneak(or from invis) you can really pound it in.

I personally would get rid of Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack since it is useless with tumble, although I'm not sure if 1.69 made it so Dodge is in fact a pre-req for Epic Dodge as per the description.  Also, as was mentioned earlier, the Ranger ability two-weapon fighting eliminates the need for ambidexterity.  This gives you three, if not four feats to play around with.  I'd recomend KD/IKD for starters, move Finesse up to an ASAP status, and maybe change the weapon focus choice?  I mean, Kama's would be great, but you're better off with something you don't need Exotic for(I'm a fan of hand-axe personally). This is assuming you're going to go full ranger pre-epic for maximum BAB.  Otherwise, you could risk some loss and take 4 monk levels pre-epic for some added speed and the automatic kama proficiency.  The other spare feats give you other options for other things, but I'm doing this off the top of my head and can't come up with too much else.

Off the bat, its a nice build, just needs some modifications for "optimization".  I would be curious to know why you put Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack in the build, if only to discuss and help you figure out why they aren't all that useful.
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Rabbac
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« Reply #16 on: 20 November 2008, 10:04 »

He doesnt need exotic if hes a monk they already can use kamas, dodge, mobility, 25 dex and 30 ranks of tumble are need for epic dodge (although i think mobility was bugged and not needed but im not sure now with updates). As for spring attack i only ever take it for wm's so im not sure why its in there.

Although i suggested going str based for more damage (even with bane etc its still pretty poor) the benefit of going dex is that you can combine the monks wis bonus for a decent ac as it seems wis items are easier to get than dex ones but are mostly cleric based so you need your umd from rogue to use them.
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« Reply #17 on: 20 November 2008, 13:26 »

KK's comment made me remember a balancing thing I thought some time ago. While I do think that there aren't many options of finessable weapons, I think these ones should have lesser damage compared to str-only and 2-handed weapons.

I remember Zev had an dex wm that had ac on heavens and made about 200+ with each crit. Of course, I do not criticize her for building it, but the fact that you could make a dexer with about the same ab and damage of a str toon and still have the bonus of the superb ac, making str toons pretty pointless if you got the right gear.
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« Reply #18 on: 21 November 2008, 02:53 »

Nearly all my toons are dexers.  Its fairly easy to get damage from them as well.  Cleric ranger bard rouge all have added damage bonuses then added with WM make a very nice combo.  Thus making good damage dexer possible plus a good weapon of course.

Kermit is on the right idea adding ranger and rouge since both can add damage to a build.  I would rather live with the crappy speed and add SD.  Which would add sneak damage easier.  Rangers being the best SD co-class as well since you have all the SD buffs built in.

KK if you take 6 levels of monk you don't need KD or IKD.  But if you used SD you would need them.
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KrazyKuban
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« Reply #19 on: 21 November 2008, 03:24 »

Heh, I honestly forgot the level Monk's get KD/IKD, which is why I mentioned it.

In that case, given the added surplus feats, he could use Kamas and still get full BAB from fully ranger pre-epic using his extra feats.

@ Rab - the whole point behind needing to use exotic weapon prof was that he wouldn't take Monk pre-epic, to maximize AB.  Also, I checked on the wiki, and Mobility was never in the mix for Epic Dodge.  Dodge, however, pre-1.69(still no idea if it was changed with the update) was listed in as a pre-req, but was not actually needed.  Would have to be tested in a build mod, etc to confirm post-update, I suppose.
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Kermit
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« Reply #20 on: 21 November 2008, 04:02 »

dodge and mobility are pre for spring- spring is used to keep from incurring attacks of opportunity. with as weak as the toon can be, preventing the AoO was a thought. Appearantly, Dodge IS required by 1.69 so I went for the other 2. The Ambi makes it so that the AB is the same for both hands and only drops the AB by 4 instead of 6 ( unless improved 2 weap fight does that then no need for Ambi)

Monk was taken pre-epic for the kama- could go kukri. So without the ambi, mobility, spring and going 20 ranger pre-epic, could take toughness, exotic and finese all pre-epic. go 9 monk for the extra speed, 10 rogue and still able to get epic dodge. With finese being out of the epic feats, you could go ESF hide and coner sneak. I'm finding it to be as effective in a delayed HIPS setting. No HIPS on the server Im playing this on. And TS has been turned into see invis with a boost to spot. GS has been turned into regular sanc.

But this toon with maxed saves on gear, +12 to con and dex, sub race that has +4 dex= WHOA! Max gear AC and AB or EB is +5 so you have to build a toon that is well ballanced before the gear to have it work. For GvM I would probably go with either light hammer or kukri. Maybe Accus.
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charliebuckett
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« Reply #21 on: 21 November 2008, 05:31 »

Hand Axes are the way to go like KK said.  Queens axe being prefered but the regular ones are ok too. Acid and slash damage then adding blade thirst with is 1-10 magic.  Your ac won't be weak at all if you have monk it gets quite good around 75 I would think with some wisdom buffs.  Your ab will always be weak at level 40.  But this build around 30 is deadly in pvp.
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tonoplast
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« Reply #22 on: 21 November 2008, 06:22 »

If your tumble is high enough, i don't think u'll get aoo.. i m not sure. maybe.
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KrazyKuban
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« Reply #23 on: 21 November 2008, 07:08 »

Fairly certain the DC for tumble is always 15...so...I think he'll be fine
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« Reply #24 on: 21 November 2008, 10:13 »

@ Rab - the whole point behind needing to use exotic weapon prof was that he wouldn't take Monk pre-epic, to maximize AB.  Also, I checked on the wiki, and Mobility was never in the mix for Epic Dodge.  Dodge, however, pre-1.69(still no idea if it was changed with the update) was listed in as a pre-req, but was not actually needed.  Would have to be tested in a build mod, etc to confirm post-update, I suppose.
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