Class: mages, specialized vs. mages, general

[Lief]

Howdy all,

On the basis of one point, could I ask for opinions and thoughts from DMs and players on the idea of discriminating between general and specialized mages (i.e. specialized in one school of magic)? At the moment, both mages appear to have no advantages/disadvantages relative to the other vis-a-vis GvM1 specific scripts and such. And so, would there be an interest in building upon NWN's inherent adv/disadv, as between the two, such that only specialized mages can get the uberly interesting summons, while general mages only get the NWN standard issue meatshield summons?

Quite frankly, I don't think anyone has made a specialized mage. However, I imagine that Terrorble will think of one soon. The toon will naturally be RP-friendly and interesting, but pwn-able by any non-RP friendly, non-interesting, powerbuild. 

So, can we give a reason other than the virtues of RP friendliness (sp?) and interesting build combo for specialized mages?

cheers,


Lief

ps: One, naturally, could extrapolate from here and think of other adv for specialized mages, including bumping up the DC to resist number by 1 or 2 every 5 or 10 (specialized) mage levels.

[Endlessorrow]

Well mages should be struck as the topic line as only wizards can be that type of specialist not sorcerers.

 I think that summons have ben sufficiently tuned down. to the point that its not a musthave spell or feat now but is still usefull.   nwn standard csummons are completly useless and if a change like this was made to help specialist wizardws i think the dc boost is the only resonable option not a nerf other wizards approach

[ShinsFortress]

Specialist mages get more spells/day.  Isn't that enough?

As for Summons specifically, where I now play they boost non-undead Summons (a bit) on Spell Focus: Conjuration.

[Terrorble]

I remember making an evocation specialist wizard at one point but the benefits weren't worth the lost spell options from the opposing spell school.

How many extra spell slots do they get again?  I don't even know.  I know they have the bonus DC and cannot use raise dead scrolls.

I do not think our current approach to summons is the most logical but it is useful and improved over how it was.  Was a major boost to leveling.

[Abimael]

I think PnP DnD mages had extra spell slots due to use on the chosen school and also +4 DC for the spells casted by that school. Also, you could get Spell Focuses and Greater Spell Focus on the chosen school fro anothet +8 DC, but I'm not sure about.

One thing that I once saw on another server is that they had "Pure Caster Bonus". It was something like if u had +30 caster lvls on a spellcasting class you'd get a bonus +2 ou +4 to all of your spells DCs. Furthermore, if you made a pure 40 lvl caster, you'd get an astonishing +8 to all your spell DCs.

While those improvements may seen a bit high, remember a 40 lvl caster will have 20 disc and almost no AC, so in the end it might be all evened out.

[Abimael]

Shins remark is a very pertinent one. Some less used focuses could really have a bump in use

Currently the top focuses, in my opínion, are:

-Necromancy - Horrids, Death Spells, Energy Drains: The top killer
-Transmutation - Stonehold, Drown, Flesh To Stone: The top disabler

Second, in a (very) lesser extent:
-Evocation - high elemental damage, but reflex save makes them useless against dexers
-Enchantment - disabling spells that are killers to mid-20s but near useless at 40 and also mind-affecting

Now, what other focuses offer?

-Illusion: Actually gotta run some tests, just realized a few things about it 
-Conjuration: Flame Arrows, and?
-Abjuration: what?
-Divination: ????

So, we could spice things a little more for these ununsed focuses. Let's say:

-Conjuration: focuses could add to summoned monster levels. For example, a Spell Focus could add +2 to hd of all summoned creature's

-Abjuration: it could add a bonus to caster levels when casting a dispelling spell or a defensive spell. For example, a Spell Focus in it could make a 20th lvl sorcerer cast premonition and Mordor disj as if he was a 22 lvl one.

-Divination: See Invis, True Seeing, Clayrvoyance, Amplify(I think). Maybe augment the power of those spells, say, Clayervoyance adds 10+2*focus in listen/spot, same going with amplify. It could add 2* Focus duration in round to TS, for example.


Anyway, we can play with many things here 

[klixon]

premonition appears to be a divination spell...
see spellschools

[ollebroc]

Another option:

Remove the caps (or higher cap) on spell levels 3-4 and less for those specialized mages or pure mages. Longer durations possible too. 

[parknutz]

No cap to Ice Storms??? ugh! Be fun though
 

[Terrorble]

I think all spell scripts are available but it's a big big project to uniformly add in checks for pure casters, added HD to summons, uncapped evocation spells for specialists (that's a cool idea), etc.

With some of the druid spells I've been messing with I was trying a system for adding benefits for focus feats.  

For example:  Bombardment is a conjuration spell.  IIRC it caps at 15d8.  
+2d8 for conj focus
+2d8 for gr conj focus
+4d8 for epic conj focus for a max 23d8

Seems neat but a lot of dedication to get a level 8 spell that doesn't even do as much as a basic horrid.  So I added a 1d6 round daze effect similar to hammer of gods.  Works well as long as you don't hit yourself.

P.S.  there isn't a cap for ice storm except max level of 40 is there? unless you mean the bludge damage component

[pinkpuff]

I like the idea of adding extra damage for spell foci.

But I really like the idea that a caster (arcane only) could get a hefty bonus to caster lvls for being pure or nearly pure. Something like +2 effective caster lvls for each arcane lvl 35 and up and then another +4-6 bonus at lvl 40 if pure.

Of course this would mean going through the spells and tweaking so that they are scaled to caster level. But that needs to happen anyways, was always kinda lame to me that a wizard/sorc would have 3-4 useful offensive spells out of the 50 or so that are available.

Higher level spells like Meteor Swarm need to be looked at badly. Soooooo many of the spells were introduced with the original nwn game that they were never meant to be cast by someone greater than level 20. Making spells like MEteor swarm do 20d6 AND then +1d6 every say 2-3 caster levels past 20 would be good. Wail would be nice with a small damage component, just like 1d4 sonic per level with no cap...same for weird, maybe 1d4 negative with no cap...

Lots of work that needs to be done and most of it could have been done prewipe to avoid the wipe altogether.