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Gondor vs Mordor
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Human 9monk/5sd/26bg
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Topic: Human 9monk/5sd/26bg (Read 12407 times)
parknutz
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Human 9monk/5sd/26bg
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on:
15 April 2009, 17:55 »
I need some help with this build. I have starting stats as
14STR,15DEX(30),8CON,14WIS,12INT,14CHA
any pre-epic im looking at 8monk 4 sd 8bg so insert SD levels where you see fit. And all Stat increases into DEX.
pre-epic feats
1)monk Dodge, Mobility
3)monk weapon finesse
6)monk Power Attack
9)BG weapon focus unarmed or kama?
12)BG Divine Might
15)BG improved crit
18)Blind Fight
I would like to take my 9th monk lvl around 27th lvl and save last SD lvl for last feat at 39 for max skill and Epic Dodge.
21) Great Dex 1
24) Great Dex 2
25)*epic wpn focus
27)monk Great Dex 3
29) *Epic Prowess
30)Great Dex 4
32) *Epic Servant
33) Great Dex 5
35) *Armor Skin
36) Blinding Speed???
38)* epic toughness
39) SD Epic Dodge
*Denotes Bonus feats
BAB would be 27.
Of course you would want as many DEX,WIS and CHA enhancements you can find.
With 26 Lvls of Bg you would get 2 extra attacks and with 25 lvls of BG you get an extra +5ab from Bulls STR when cast. This build has the ability to get 10 attacks around max. 9 w/o haste with flurry activated. I'm just looking for some fine tuning. on this. Your input would be greatly appreciated.
«
Last Edit: 15 April 2009, 18:54 by parknutz
»
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Terrorble
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Re: Human 9monk/5sd/26bg
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Reply #1 on:
15 April 2009, 19:24 »
I'd do kamas since your base fist damage is low with only 9 monk levels.
I really like low buff chars. They aren't always the best but are enjoyable.
Blinding speed gives 1 round/level of anything so I think it's worth it. 12STR and 8CON vs 14STR and 10CON. I prefer the extra 40hp over +1dmg.
«
Last Edit: 15 April 2009, 19:28 by Terrorble
»
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parknutz
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Re: Human 9monk/5sd/26bg
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Reply #2 on:
15 April 2009, 19:27 »
aren't kamas 1d6? i thought 9th lvl monk damage was 1d10?
I took 14 STR for Power Attack and Divine Might for extra damage. You think 8d6 Sneak Attack will be enough?
Skills i was thinking max hide/ms/disc some in heal and taunt
Fully Buffed AB=BAB27+ 16dex(max)+2ewf+1ep+5weapon+1bless+1aid+5 Bulls Str=58AB that along with HIPS should be OK...not great but ok.
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Last Edit: 15 April 2009, 21:09 by parknutz
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EarlgrayT
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Re: Human 9monk/5sd/26bg
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Reply #3 on:
15 April 2009, 21:03 »
I had a very similar build before the wipe, but with a bit more Monk and less BG.
I went with dual kamas, needless to say AB was too low, but with that many sneak attacks, damage was good when I could hit things.
I took Epic dodge at the first opportunity, it helped a lot. Biggest problem was juggling equipment in an attempt to get some sort of buff, but with the changes to BG's bulls strength this build could do a lot better now.
If empty body gets a revamp, I might have a go at 20monk/5sd/15bg or something like that, with one kama, the speed alone would make it fun.
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Endlessorrow
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Aka Fellelves
Re: Human 9monk/5sd/26bg
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Reply #4 on:
15 April 2009, 21:11 »
If you take the 12 str as sugested you would need to put a point in str for divine might. I like that tweak also the epic toughness feat is better spent as a div sheild or esf in hide ms or listen. I would lean tward div sheild personaly
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Abimael
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What can change the nature of a man?
Re: Human 9monk/5sd/26bg
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Reply #5 on:
15 April 2009, 21:32 »
Kamas are 1d6 but since they can be enchanted to +5 their damage becomes 1d6+5, which is better than the max 1d10 unarmed.
Overall, Kamas offer free gloves item slot and better minimum damage, while unarmed offers the use of the Deflect Arrows and stunning attacks. Since you'll be aiming to max 3 abilities (dex, cha, wis, in order of preference), choosing kamas seem to be better, unless you have an item setup that allows unarmed focus and maxing these 3 abilities.
Since ab is medium, I think it would be best if you concentrated in developing your stealth skills. Blinding Speed is also a very good choice if can afford to spare a feat for it.
I once read a faq about making assassins in which the writer said that Improved Iniciative feats can add the maximum number of attacks the stealthed toon can make as surprise. If I find it again, I'll post the link here, it might bring up some neat ideas.
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Terrorble
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Re: Human 9monk/5sd/26bg
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Reply #6 on:
15 April 2009, 21:41 »
ooo right, 13 str for PA and divine might. For epic BG feats you only have a few options after epic prowess, armor skin, epic weap focus, and epic fiend. It's like epic reputation, epic toughness, and that's about it. Improved sneak attack probably if you have enough of that.
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Abimael
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What can change the nature of a man?
Re: Human 9monk/5sd/26bg
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Reply #7 on:
15 April 2009, 21:43 »
http://www.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/file/563552/42969
wasn't hard to find
look for the sections 4.1 and 4.2
he says there that if u can have 10 attak/round, the first 4 attacks will count as death attacks
I imagine that a similar thing happens to hips to determine how many of the attacks will ignore dodge bonuses
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parknutz
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Re: Human 9monk/5sd/26bg
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Reply #8 on:
15 April 2009, 21:56 »
I just don't think there is enough room for both Divine Might/ Shield.
Unless you guys can find someway to fit both in without sacrificing AB it would be great.
I will take the advice on focusing on Kamas. Also making my STR 12 and CON10 at the beginning will take away 1AB and i could use those extra Great Dex feats by taking ESF hide/MS. Thanks for your input.
Pink, did you find a lot of red in this one?
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pinkpuff
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Re: Human 9monk/5sd/26bg
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Reply #9 on:
16 April 2009, 03:37 »
Nope, looks pretty solid to me
Kama is likely the best choice, if u swap out some +5 gloves for stunning fist in pvp u only lose 3 ab anyways so no big deal there.
But I would recommend Divine Shield at the cost of 1 ab if that's what it would mean. It's definitely better than Epic Toughness I think. 8 extra dodge ac only lasts 8 rounds but that could make the difference, especially if you happen to come across something with true sight or enough spot/listen to always see you.
Builds like this are ones that I always considered "on the edge".....
The edge of ac anyways. Without Divine Shield you will likely have marginal ac when compared to a non monk dexer with a shield or a str paladin with 40 tumble and Divine Shield.
Very nice build though, makes great use of recent changes and seems as though it would be effective.
Now i just need someone to type up all the damn cleric builds i have been thinking about...
23paladin/14cleric/3rogue - 69ab, 7 attacks with single weapon, 18 base cha...
14cleric/23bg/3rogue = 66ab, 7 or 8 attacks, 18 base cha - str based also..
23sorc/7cleric/10rdd - 66ab - 6 attacks, 20+ base cha, good immunities, auto stills..warding/ema.. Choose str domain on this one as you can get Divine Power (+2 attacks) extended as lvl 4 slots.
And whats up with the cleric/aa? I am quite intrigued that you can get 8 attacks, 75-80ab, and uber irresistible damage...and something like 70ac with +6 gear using Divine Shield. Seems like boss killer to me.
23rogue/7cleric/10CoT - again...uber ab/damage 7 attacks...
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parknutz
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Re: Human 9monk/5sd/26bg
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Reply #10 on:
16 April 2009, 15:40 »
Quote from: pinkpuff on 16 April 2009, 03:37
But I would recommend Divine Shield at the cost of 1 ab if that's what it would mean. It's definitely better than Epic Toughness I think. 8 extra dodge ac only lasts 8 rounds but that could make the difference, especially if you happen to come across something with true sight or enough spot/listen to always see you.
I only took Epic Toughness at 38th lvl because they don't have much of a EPIC BONUS feat selection to choose from their list. They have Epic Prowess, Epic Weapon Focus, Armor Skin, Epic Toughness, Epic Fiendish Servant, Improved Sneak Attack, and Epic Reputation.
I would need to fit Divine shield somewhere else. Perhaps 36th lvl and lose Blinding Speed?
I do have a Divine archer that I started aways back with Rade and KK when they were on more frequently. Right now he is 27th lvl and has a fully buffed AB of 57. Had a couple crits close to 200 on Shelob.
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Last Edit: 16 April 2009, 16:43 by parknutz
»
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Abimael
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What can change the nature of a man?
Re: Human 9monk/5sd/26bg
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Reply #11 on:
16 April 2009, 17:49 »
Wisdom give good extra ac, but u could consider lowering your initial wis bonus so you could start with higher dex, like 16 or 18, so you could trade 1 Great Dex feat for the Divine Shield and still maintain the Blinding Speed.
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pinkpuff
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Re: Human 9monk/5sd/26bg
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Reply #12 on:
17 April 2009, 15:19 »
Definitely want to keep blinding speed for sure.
Wisdom on a monk is a little overrated in my opinion. It's nice in that it isn't lost when flatfooted like dex if you dont have uncanny dodge, however keep in mind that you need 28wisdom (16 unbuffed) just to equal a +6 tower shield as far as ac is concerned.
Id drop 2 of the great dex feats and the bg epic toughness in favor of Divine Shield, and 2 great charismas. You lose 1 buffed ab/ac/hide/ms, but u pick up 1 damage, 1 better saves, 1 more turn undead, and an 8 ac improvement over how its currently built.
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bad_karma
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Re: Human 9monk/5sd/26bg
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Reply #13 on:
17 April 2009, 19:00 »
Quote from: pinkpuff on 16 April 2009, 03:37
23paladin/14cleric/3rogue - 69ab, 7 attacks with single weapon, 18 base cha...
I take this as example: aren't you being a bit optimistic about the 69 ab? I think there is a 20 cap that you are bound to hit somewhere.. I had a dragon before the wipe and according to the character sheet it had 71 ab? But in the end it didn't get higher than 67 or so because of the cap.. And a dragon has base str of 48 which gives you +19 that doesn't count for the +20 cap... Don't see how the build above could ever come close to 48 str/dex(finesse).
Think the cap counts for:
any str/dex related bonuses (so max +6 when having +12ability modding items) + any buffs to ab
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parknutz
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Re: Human 9monk/5sd/26bg
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Reply #14 on:
17 April 2009, 20:03 »
Quote from: pinkpuff on 16 April 2009, 03:37
Now i just need someone to type up all the damn cleric builds i have been thinking about...
23paladin/14cleric/3rogue - 69ab, 7 attacks with single weapon, 18 base cha...
14cleric/23bg/3rogue = 66ab, 7 or 8 attacks, 18 base cha - str based also..
23sorc/7cleric/10rdd - 66ab - 6 attacks, 20+ base cha, good immunities, auto stills..warding/ema.. Choose str domain on this one as you can get Divine Power (+2 attacks) extended as lvl 4 slots.
23rogue/7cleric/10CoT - again...uber ab/damage 7 attacks...
I am very interested in these 4 builds. I think i can put together the Sorc build. I would like to see the starting stats on the rogue and cle/bg build if you have them.
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parknutz
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Re: Human 9monk/5sd/26bg
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Reply #15 on:
17 April 2009, 20:11 »
Quote from: bad_karma on 17 April 2009, 19:00
I take this as example: aren't you being a bit optimistic about the 69 ab? I think there is a 20 cap that you are bound to hit somewhere.. I had a dragon before the wipe and according to the character sheet it had 71 ab? But in the end it didn't get higher than 67 or so because of the cap.. And a dragon has base str of 48 which gives you +19 that doesn't count for the +20 cap... Don't see how the build above could ever come close to 48 str/dex(finesse).
Think the cap counts for:
any str/dex related bonuses (so max +6 when having +12ability modding items) + any buffs to ab
Well with the DP spell only granting +1/7 lvls i don't think he comes close to the cap at all.
Bless, Divine Favor, Aid, Prayer, DP and Battletide=12ab from spells. Combine that with BAB of 30 a +5 weapon +3 for feats(EP,EWF) that only is 50AB so even a STR of 40 would be 65ab and he can still add Smite to that.
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klixon
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ooooh... shiney things!
Re: Human 9monk/5sd/26bg
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Reply #16 on:
17 April 2009, 20:16 »
{EDIT} scratch that... i was thinking about a different build lol {/edit}
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Anything can be interpreted to mean anything.
Especially since it's the same word.
pinkpuff
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Re: Human 9monk/5sd/26bg
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Reply #17 on:
17 April 2009, 21:03 »
Admittedly it might have been only 68ab but its been a couple months since i tested it.
But yeah, Park is right. Divine Power now gives ab even if you have 20bab by lvl 20, which makes it easier for a paladin to hit the +20 cap without CoT levels. A cleric/bard/rdd with 48 str could get 68 ab prewipe...and thats with dp counting for 5 of the max 20.
From what I understand those builds would be dispelled in most of the harder areas anyways...but as boss killers....damage.
The +20 ab cap is affected by all spell buffs, weapon enhancements, special feat abilities (wrath/bard song).
Things that do NOT count toward the cap...
Smite Evil/Good
Weapon Foci
Epic Prowess
Strength/Dexterity/Wisdom mods
AA arrow enhancement
Maybe others but thats close enough
This is why I always had a problem with how things were changed without any player input. You might think at first glance that altering Divine Power to not give standard extra attacks and only 1 ab per 7 caster levels is a "balancing nerf". But when you really look into it you see that the lost ab can easily be made up AND it now also gives you 1 extra attack per 5 charisma mod...which means not only will you get 2 more attacks but you will also be dealing a minimum of 10 irresistible damage during those attacks from Divine Might alone, no less more from favor...
Gotta ask the community when making changes. Every supposed "nerf" that i have ever seen here in the last 2 years was always the result of something being pumped too far in the first place and then resulted in loopholes or other additions that usually made the abilities even worse post nerf.
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Abimael
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Re: Human 9monk/5sd/26bg
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Reply #18 on:
17 April 2009, 22:04 »
Quote from: pinkpuff on 17 April 2009, 21:03
From what I understand those builds would be dispelled in most of the harder areas anyways...but as boss killers....damage.
Yeah, that was my first thought when I read those builds. Smart approach in countering the attack loss by using DP and tenser, but imo the fact that you could easily get dispelled limits its use. Even a dispel magic casted by a wand would have a great chance of dispelling the DP, and a Mordor disj will cripple heavily the build (although a Mordor disj cripples anyone
)
There is also the problem of DP beeing 1 round / 2 caster levels, so you get about 3-4 extended castings of it that will last 7 rounds.
But in a group wwith someone playing the role of "attracter" and concentrating on killing the dispelling minions first, it can probably kick a lot of ass. I'd just not choose for pvp.
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pinkpuff
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Re: Human 9monk/5sd/26bg
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Reply #19 on:
18 April 2009, 00:36 »
Agreed 100%
Just wish pvp wasn't such a focus for everyone
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MasterThief
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Re: Human 9monk/5sd/26bg
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Reply #20 on:
21 April 2009, 12:22 »
I found a nice magic kama for this build the other night with amb and 2 weapon fighting on it (only +3 though)think it dropped in the burial chamber.
I am doing a 35 cleric 2 sd and 3 monk to get the full divine power spell, annoying because i would have probably prefered to do 10 sd and get epic dodge and no timer for hips but i am surprised at how pretty undispellable i am (except mords of course) and the spellweavers in the stingers cant touch me another nice bonus in taking 35 lvls of cleric are the cleric bonuse feats which include grt wisdom which helps alot
I will post it when i stop being so lazy. AB finishes around 62 and AC is pretty good to if i can find any wis enhancements (except wis ammy).
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