Switching Factions

[parknutz]

I would like to see an option where it was possible to switch factions after a certain amount of xp is gained 2 million or so.

I just hate that you have to build another toon to farm the opposite faction areas. Of course some builds can't transfer. Paladins would still be a Gondor and Assassins and BG's would still be Mordor.

[pinkpuff]

Should do away with alignment restrictions period.

[nwnolan]

pinkpuff you're saying that you should be able to have blackguards and assassins play on gondors side and paladins play on mordors? 

[pinkpuff]

Why not? I have seen countless Gondor half orcs and palemasters, not to mention Mordor Champions of Torm..

[NLawson]

Why not? I have seen countless Gondor half orcs and palemasters, not to mention Mordor Champions of Torm..

This is going to sound unfair, but I'm working purely from logic here. This is why not:

• Half orcs are not evil. Orcs are evil (they are actually evil elves, which are "Drow" in D&D), but half orcs might be the children of humans raped by orcs, and shun their orcish blood. Being half orc doesn't make them evil any more than being the son of a pirate makes you an outlaw.
• Palemasters are not evil. They are not good, but that doesn't make them evil. Pale masters may lock themselves away in a tower for years trying to perfect a way to live on after their time and learn more about the arcane, but that doesn't mean that they must therefore support Sauron's conquest of Middle Earth...they might live in a village and be tolerated by (and in return protective of) the people who live around the tower. When Sauron attacks they will defend their village like any other man.
• Champions of Torm follow Torm (duh), and so Mordor toons technically should not be allowed to make a Champion of Torm character (since in order to level a CoT, like a Paladin, you must be honest and devout to your deity, and Torm is the patron of Paladins and enemy of corruption and evil). So neither Paladins nor CoT should be usable on the Mordor side. You cannot have an enemy of evil serving Sauron. Period.
• I do not agree with the game's idea that assassins are intrinsically evil. You can be an assassin and be neutral - simply doing the bidding of whoever pays the highest. You could even be good - if you were to hunt down and systematically destroy evil leaders then that would make you a good guy.
  There was a team in charge of assassinating Hitler when he was in power. I would argue they were "good" since they were trying to prevent genocide, even though they were assassins (which are "evil" by default in this game).
• Blackguards, however, ARE evil. They devote themselves to evil just as paladins devote themselves to good. They should not be playable on the Gondor side. Period.

The only way that you could (by D&D rules) have a paladin toon play on an evil side, is to go through an alignment change (like Aribeth does in the NWN main game). Just so you know - this would technically result in the paladin losing all their divinely inspired abilities, since they no longer serve the god that grants those abilities. Same with the Blackguard.
Since this server does not allow alignment changes, it can't allow this either.

Put simply - Sauron is Evil, and anyone who is not with him is against him. Evil toons (who delight in causing pain and misery, and wish only for power) would surely flock to an evil leader who will grant them both power and people to exert that power over. Good toons will naturally oppose Sauron. That's the way it is.

[MasterThief]

Maybe a third faction which you can only play as a netural would be the answer can be attacked by everyone gonds, mords (double xp bonus for killing them) and make it tougher by not setting up any particular starter areas for the to lvl in or shop..

A new rival evil faction would probably fit in nicely, hated by gonds and mords alike, Agmar or Numenour (cant remember the spelling) revival.

Only super hard toons may apply 

Im sure PP can come up with one of those 

[NLawson]

The neutral idea isn't so bad actually - if you had a group that just hated both sides, you could even stretch it and say anyone could apply for that one.
I especially like the double exp for killing Gondor/Mordor players, and the no starter area bit. It'd mean finding your own area out in Middle Earth...

That would solve the faction problem  because it makes perfect sense that blackguards would hate other blackguards if they did not agree with their specific plans (eg new group hates Mordor) and they'd hate Gondor anyway...Same with paladins.

[nwnolan]

Maybe a third faction which you can only play as a netural would be the answer can be attacked by everyone gonds, mords (double xp bonus for killing them) and make it tougher by not setting up any particular starter areas for the to lvl in or shop..

A new rival evil faction would probably fit in nicely, hated by gonds and mords alike, Agmar or Numenour (cant remember the spelling) revival.

Only super hard toons may apply 

Im sure PP can come up with one of those 

Keep the amazing ideas rolling Master. And yes I am in complete agreement with this Nuetral side. In the old LOTR server I use to play in, there were 2 guilds, the good guild (forgot the name) and then the evil guild, which was called the Black Numenoreans. There was also from what I believe to be a secretive neutral guild called the Dunedain. I only say this because someone told me that there was another guild called the Dunedain, and I saw several people with the .:. sign.

[charliebuckett]

Sigh I hate to bust everyones bubble but this is a unworkable idea.  A. It  completey defeats the main idea of the server. Gvs.M.   B.  Has HUGE advatages.  IE. attacking players from either side and leveling in both areas.  Again is you can level in both factions why even bother with Gvs.M??

[Mistress Zevia Shadowlust]

Agreed.

No need to revamp the Whole premise of the server.  Those types of changes are best suited for the start of a new module.

And as for getting rid of the Alignment restrictions of playable sides,  I was first in favor of this since it would bring out a TON of new playable characters and add a variety to the server that has never been seen before on GvM. But the more I think about it the main reason I wanted to do this was because I wanted to make the Super builds that are extremely high caliber. That being said, We just Wiped the server in order to Dumb it down.... I think perhaps opening that can would just bring us back to where we were just not with items so to speak.  Perhaps things should be left alone as far as Alignment restrictions are concerned even if I want a Pali Bard Palemaster or Bard DD Palemaster, or Pali BG Bard/Sorc. 

That said, I am still thinking some PRC races would be a fun addition to GvM.  Perhaps i nthe form of Event winnings. Instead of items or weapons, play a PRC class that is allowable in game Like goblin, or whatever.

[Abimael]

Sigh I hate to bust everyones bubble but this is a unworkable idea.  A. It  completey defeats the main idea of the server. Gvs.M.   B.  Has HUGE advatages.  IE. attacking players from either side and leveling in both areas.  Again is you can level in both factions why even bother with Gvs.M??

And there is the problem of dividing 15 players between 3 factions...

[pinkpuff]

3 factions has been discussed and thrown out the window more times than I can remember.

And for everyone here who wants to post crap about d&d rules, its a LOTR server, so throw that crap out too.

Zevia, what build would be overpowered by a lack of alignment restrictions?
A bard dragon? Cleric would still be better.

Paladin/pm? Same advantages/disadvantages as cleric/rdd vs cleric/pm.


Not that it matters much. I'm pretty sure there are many ideas that have been shot down due to the person who suggested them being wo they are

[NLawson]

And for everyone here who wants to post crap about d&d rules, its a LOTR server, so throw that crap out too.

Looks like I hit a nerve. "Everyone here" obviously means me, but I'm confused as to why you don't just address me directly. If you have something to say, Pinkpuff, say it to my face. You and I both know that comment was aimed directly at me - so you might as well say so. Since I was polite and courteous when pointing out the flaws in your ideas, I would expect the same from you. It would have been a lot more polite (but, sadly, no more correct) to say "Nlawson, this server is LOTR, not D&D, so the D&D rules and limitations do not apply". I assume you know the value of good manners, even if you don't use them.
I'm sorry to say that I'm expecting a "get off your high horse, jackass" comment from you as a reply to this, but maybe you'll surprise me.

Just because it's a LOTR server doesn't mean it's not bound by D&D rules. All that this server does is put a new outer shell on the game, the image may be different but the limitations are exactly the same. Just because the server doesn't adhere strictly to the rules doesn't mean that it is FREE of those rules. They still apply - the server simply works around them when needed....this is not one of those times.
The idea that a paladin would lose their powers isn't exclusive to D&D, but D&D is where it would crop up most often. Common sense dictates that if you turn away from the source of your power - you no longer have access to that power, no matter whether the power is arcane, divine, or natural.
If a soldier was removed from duty, would you still allow him access to the weapons? Of course not.


Oh - and after viewing the points Charlie and Zevia made - I have to change my stance and agree that 3 factions would be a bad idea.
I stand by what I said about alignment restrictions.

[Terrorble]

Anyone know how NWN handles alignment requirements for classes?  Rade, Olle,...

I scanned the .2da's   Figured it'd be listed in there. 

[parknutz]

Again this idea was based around toons that weren't already bound to LG or Evil alignment. I would like to see an option where once you've grown tired of playing a 40th lvl Gondor where you can switch sides to play Mordor.

Keep in mind again this was just for toons that don't have alingment restrictions.

[pinkpuff]

Looks like I hit a nerve. "Everyone here" obviously means me, but I'm confused as to why you don't just address me directly. If you have something to say, Pinkpuff, say it to my face.

I'm sorry, is this your server? Do you make the rules?

Thanks and all, almost read the whole post. I'd advise using a different opening statement.


And of course im guessing the next argument will be about 'reality', because we can all shoot blue missiles out of our fingertips..

Paladin, whatever.

Self limitation is NOT the way to go.

[klixon]

Anyone know how NWN handles alignment requirements for classes?  Rade, Olle,...

I scanned the .2da's   Figured it'd be listed in there. 

It's in classes.2da, the fields "AlignRestrict", "AlignRstrctType" and "InvertRestrict"
There's two tables at the end of this page that explains how they work (the page is for NWN2, but the tables haven't changed between versions)

[MasterThief]

And there is the problem of dividing 15 players between 3 factions...

Fair enough point Abi its not gonna work considering the number of players  

Yes i know PP that it has been suggested a few times over the years but nothing wrong with finding out what the new crop think is there and banding round a few ideas, would have been fun about 5 years ago, but then you werent here were you 

NLawson dont worry (or bother) with PP he doesnt make friends and tends to forget that its isnt his server and he doesnt make the rules either (something we are all grateful for) your obviously just trying to join in with the group and i presume you refer to D&D because NWN is b a s e d on those rules as we all should know.

I wouldnt bother getting into any kind of tit for tat nonsense with PP NL he just craves the attention he never got as a child, just keep putting your views on the forums in a polite and cival manner he will soon go away  . 

As for alignment changes not for me thanks.

[NLawson]

I'm sorry, is this your server? Do you make the rules?

I'm not going to fight with you - I can't be bothered. This is not my server, I don't make the rules. Nor is it yours. Our arguments' only strength is how much sense each makes with respect to the rest of the game.
This, simply put, means that if your idea does not make sense either in realistic or in game terms (eg, a longbow that uses greatswords for ammo, or a +20 axe that does 5d6 acid, fire, cold, neg, pos, and magical damage) then it has no merit.

Again this idea was based around toons that weren't already bound to LG or Evil alignment.

It makes a lot more sense that way 
If you ignore alignment bound toons, it doesn't really go against anything except personal opinion to allow side-swaps. Of course Mordor wouldn't fight alongside any toon of a "good" alightment, nor would Gondor fight alongside "evil", so this effect would apply exclusively to the morally neutral band of toons.
I'm still against it, but only on a personal "I would not like this" level, rather than "this doesn't work with respect to the game rules" - it really depends on what everyone else thinks. I wouldn't mind if it was implemented, but I'd rather it was not.

The main problem I see if it IS implemented is that shortly (after a month or two) people will start asking DMs to reduce the 2 million (or other high number) exp cost to swap.
It's a good idea - but I personally wouldn't enjoy it (though I doubt I'd get that much exp, so I'm not sure it matters).

[ollebroc]

Changing class alignment restrictions means changing the 2da files which would mean creating haks or switching the server to Linux. 

[parknutz]

Thank you Olle for your input.

Again I dont see a problem with a CN toon switching sides.

[ollebroc]

I would think that any change in faction should come with a severely severe penalty. Like dropped down to lvl 10-19. But then RDDs could never do this. 

[Abimael]

Well, I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I've saw no alignment restriction on an Arena server, and they didn't use hakpaks. As a matter of fact, I believe it was Antiworld, considering I've seen paladins multiclassed to assassins and pms.

And park's alignment idea is interesting. Let's say only CN characters are allowed to change factions - that can be the "Mercenary" alignment. To compensate that advantage, they could not be allowed to choose whenever they want but only 1 time per reset. Also, since they're CN, they wouldn't be allowed to be Paladins, BGs, Assassins, Monks, Dragons... maybe that can bring a good balancing, afterall.

[Terrorble]

tx klixon

the hak part I don't know.

[ollebroc]

Linux servers can do many many things without haks.