Opinion needed

[calbrenar]

High level bard or high level bg in a strength build?  I'm thinking spells and song are obvioudly better for party but high level bg is better for me personnaly plus crazy summon and if a batd in party later not wasted by having 2

[Khaine]

That's pretty much what my bard is.

At lvl 40 he'll be 23 bard/10 RDD/7 WM, with still spell feat (no real need for auto still II), lasting inspiration, +5 ac/2ab bard/curse songs and pretty decent taunt skill.
I think I got 71 AC on my local test mod with him @ 40 with only +5 items, and ~56 ab. Which with songs and taunt puts him at an effective 73 AC and ~65-67 ab, assuming the target doesn't have insane concentration.

I think it should be possible to build it with 4 attacks per round without haste, but I didn't really feel like leveling to 15 without heavy armor.

Started him with 11 int and rushed RDD lvls for the extra 2 int so I could take expertise. Will also end up with improved expertise, so he can be backup tank if needed.

[calbrenar]

Yeah I am going bard rdd bg and mixing str and divine dmg w awesome saves and div might/shield.  Thequestion though was which one to put the majority of levels in.  Bard for song and spells or bg for awesome summons and 5 apr w bull str

[Khaine]

Well, if you take 22 lvls BG you'll get 2 additional attacks per round from bull's strength, and you *can* build the toon so he/she/it gets 4 base attacks without haste. Add haste and you get a total of 7 attacks per round. Only downside is pretty bad bard song, with only 8 lvls bard max. If you want good bard song you'll need 16 lvls of it, and it you want good bard song that actually lasts longer than a few rounds, you'll need at least 20 lvls of bard. Not sure if it's worth it if you're looking for a heavy hitter, since your AB will be a little gimped.

[azurerogue]

I was recently debating about levels of bard for one of my toons (Gondor, so BG was not an option) and here's something you might find interesting (regarding the level 16 Bard vs 20+ for Lasting Inspiration).

At level 20, a bard can take Lasting Inspiration (assuming level 20 is taken at 21+).  Assuming that you did NOT take Lingering Song (or whatever it's called) that gives you potentially 100 rounds (10 turns = ten minutes) * 20 = 2000 rounds (200 turns = 200 minutes = 100 in-game "hours") of Bard Song each day.  Minimum time between rest is 3 hours (6 minutes = 6 turns).  That means, with Lasting Inspiration, if I'm right about all this, one Bard Song is enough to carry you from one rest to the other - assuming you rest at minimum intervals (not always possible).  This leaves you with 19 Curse Songs for the day.

At level 16 Bard, let's assume you DID take Lingering Song, you get potentially 15 rounds * 16 = 240 rounds (24 Turns).  Now take out the 6 turns required to make it from one rest to the other (6 turns = 60 rounds.  60 rounds / 15 rounds/song = 4) and you have 16-4 = 12 Curse Songs left per rest. 

So if your only intent is keeping yourself (and possible a party that lacks a better bard) buffed from one rest to the next (example, casual PvE) then 16 levels of Bard is probably fine - and it generally allows for a higher BAB pre-epic making 4 attacks per round more viable.  If, however, you're looking for long buffs so you don't have to rest as often, or can just spam Curse Song more frequently, then 20+ Bard is a much better option (I'd imagine it does better in raids, or in any situation when you can't simply clear a few enemies and sleep whenever you want).

Just my two cents, but it's how I made my decision about my build so I thought I'd share.

[calbrenar]

assuming the wiki is accurate I thought the 2nd attack from bulls was @ 23 plus.  My main debate was if there is no bard I can buff party well as I'll have around 20 levels but if there is a bard one of us i s pointless.  I thought bards were fairly common in higher pve so I was rhinking pure bg is is better since theoreticslly with groups I won't need my bard song I'll use khaines lol.  Also not sure on wep.  Was going dual wield since high base str an ddivine dmf.  Kukrils maybe?  Was going to use 2 acid reavers but that's -4/-4 

Apologize for typos formatting.  Oosting on my prethoughts?

[sestitodc]

The wiki says a Blackguard's Bull's Strength gives 1 extra attack at 21 BG, and 2 extra attacks at 26 BG.

[Khaine]

Must have been thinking about another spell, then. In that case, you can't get full use of the BG class with a bard/rdd/bg build, since you'd need 5 lvls bard to take rdd lvls at the start of the build, which would leave you at 25 lvls BG (and very low umd).

[Abimael]

The 23 bard/ 7 wm / 10 rdd is a fun build to play since it can dish out a lot of damage, but it has some weaknesses because of its low saving throws. Also, it is best played in mordor because the MT has nothing with crit immunity.

Also, one of the best armors in the server (maybe) is a breastplate, so you could thinkof not selectin Heavy Armor Proef.

[calbrenar]

The main reason I took 22 bg was epic fiend not the extra att.  Its just a bonus.  I finished up build lots o fmin dmg awesome saves 50ish ab and mid 70ac so pretty happy w it.  I am thinking of going kukri but not dure.  Costs an extrs prof

[calbrenar]

What are som good slashing weps w elem dmg in game?

[Khaine]

The 23 bard/ 7 wm / 10 rdd is a fun build to play since it can dish out a lot of damage, but it has some weaknesses because of its low saving throws.

That's why I'm using Ring of Health on him, and planning on using Bigby's Bane or Bigby's Right hand as well, once I get them.

:3

[Rade]

What are som good slashing weps w elem dmg in game?

There are a lot of longswords available.

[pinkpuff]

Last I knew bigbies were ability and/or ac checks so saves have nothing to do with it.

Getting 4 attacks on that build is a must.

Lasting Inspiration is a must as well, it wastes 2 rounds to resing both songs.

BG is really only good for smiting or low ac mobs. 200 attacks won't do any good if your ab sucks. Mix with cleric to change that.

Bard/rdd/wm is a decent build but its a tweener. Its not a true bard tank and not a true hitter either. You have to sacrifice too much to get epic taunt.