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Gondor vs Mordor  |  Gondor vs Mordor 1  |  GvM1 Future Talk (Moderator: Rade)  |  Rangers - HIPS
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Author Topic: Rangers - HIPS  (Read 2757 times)
Redaurora
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« on: 30 August 2009, 20:12 »

It came to my attention that the chaps who made dnd realised the ranger sucked.

So when they updated to version 3.5 they added a bunch more goodies.

    * Both fortitude and reflex as primary saving throws
    * d8 hit die instead of d10
    * 6 skill points per level instead of 4
    * No longer given medium armor proficiency
    * Dual-wield at level 2 instead of at level 1, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting at level 6 instead of level 9
    * Woodland Stride at level 7, evasion at level 9
    * Hide in plain sight at level 17 (outside only)
    * Improved spell list

from here http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Ranger

Now i know you can add hips as an item property. And that paladins already get a warhorse via itemproperty on their creature hide.

How about adding hips to rangers? ^_^

I think they more than deserve it.

IF anything else there could be added also that would be great.

Pinkpuff has already suggested this exactly. But somewhat more conservative.
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NLawson
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« Reply #1 on: 31 August 2009, 05:52 »

I think this would be a step in the right direction...I read that myself, actually, and thought about posting it, but never got around to it. Hips in particular would make the ranger class more valuable, and maybe diminish the use of shadowdancers for hips. I would also suggest that the hips timer should not apply to rangers with 17+ ranger levels. That is - any ranger who can use hips by level should not be limited in it's use.

I think it might also be a good idea to give them some sort of improved attack powers with a bow - but all I can think of right now is giving them things like point blank shot and rapid shot and weapon focus feats for free at lvl X. Eg at lvl 6 point blank, lvl 10 rapid, lvl 18 weapon focus in both longbow and shortbow (or at least give them an extra feat, and make weapon focus longbow and weapon focus shortbow the only choices for it - because any proper ranger would be proficient with a bow as well as a melee weapon) and maybe even epic weapon focus at lvl 24 or so.
This might make the class more valuable for supporting purposes - because they would have dual weapon feats, hips, and even free bow-boosting power, so the other feats could be spent on more useful abilities....but you'd need to be a fairly high level ranger to get any real benefit from them, you couldn't take it like 1 lvl of SD to gain these bonuses - it would take quite a few levels.

Rangers already have favoured enemies, extra dual-wielding feats, and bane of enemies at epic levels, but that's ALL they have. Even if you ignore my bow suggestions I would agree with Red that they deserve hips at lvl 17, because the class offers very little benefit otherwise. A bonus to specific races (bonus damage added to weapon(s), and bonus ranks in spot, listen, taunt.) of +1/5 levels.

At level 17 Rogue, they can already have crippling strike and defensive roll and slippery mind essentially free. As do SD level 17, except for crippling strike - but they gain hips, shadow evade (+4 ac, 20% conceal, and 12/+4 DR), shadow daze, and summon (epic) shadow as well.
At level 17 Paladin you have multiple immunities (eg fear, disease) and bonuses to ALL saves (divine grace) as well as the ability to heal damage (lay no hands) and do major damage to evil aligned enemies (smite).
At level 17 Wiz/Sorc you have spells up to level 8 - and in one more level you gain lvl 9 spells. Those are enough of a benefit on their own to make it worth taking the class...
At level 17 PM, you're immune to stun, hold, paralysis, and critical hits, you have a decent bonus to AC, and you can cast epic spells without meeting the caster level prerequisite.
At level 17 RDD you have multiple stat boosts and a good flame breath and ac boost.
At level 17 monk you have so many free feats and bonuses that it's not worth listing them, as well as 27 SR. That's REALLY nice to have - it means fighting a caster of equal level, the caster will need to roll 10 or higher on their SR checks (without feat bonuses) just for the spell to have an effect.

I'm not going to go on listing them - but level 17 ranger only has the dual weapon feats...which are nice - but most people use a shield or else take other classes (eg SD, rogue, monk) which give greater benefits to those using two weapons (hips, increased sneak usage and so damage, and maximum attacks per round), and so those bonus feats are almost unused - I don't think I've ever encountered a build which uses ranger in it, except for the favoured enemy and bane of enemies bonuses. I can't think of one off the top of my head.

Worth thinking about the hips at least - if nothing else.
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I know I write long posts, but you would think if something was important there would be a lot to say about it, no?
charliebuckett
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« Reply #2 on: 07 September 2009, 00:32 »

Rangers are studs compared to harper scouts...Tongue.  Ranger SD's are already dangerous PVP. Rangers the get SD for free wow...
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Terrorble
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« Reply #3 on: 07 September 2009, 08:17 »

I 100% agree with the skill points.  It's an easy thing to change but I'm afraid it would invalidate existing characters.  It's something we'd have to plan a test for.  It totally bugs me that even a 16 INT ranger can barely fit in trap skills and cover everything else.  Though that makes me want to add scaled trap related skill bonuses to One with the Land for rangers.

Bane of Enemies should be a free ranger feat at level21 or whenever they fulfill the necessary favored enemy requirements.

HiPS is hard.  That's one of those things that crosses class lines.  It could be added/removed on area enter/exit scripts as necessary.

I wish we could edit bane of enemies.  By far it would be the nicest way to make the class more appealing.

21ranger/18druid/1monk with HiPS would be very tough.
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Abimael
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« Reply #4 on: 07 September 2009, 16:57 »

I think the worst thing about the ranger are his spell list, the worst of all classes that have spellcasting abilities

Improving One With The Land and Camouflage is a nice idea, since good stealth gear is a hard thing to find, but I'd suggest that it scales after 15 or 20 ranger since casting them from items is pretty common to see.
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Redaurora
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« Reply #5 on: 28 October 2009, 07:49 »

I 100% agree with the skill points.  It's an easy thing to change but I'm afraid it would invalidate existing characters.  It's something we'd have to plan a test for.  It totally bugs me that even a 16 INT ranger can barely fit in trap skills and cover everything else.  Though that makes me want to add scaled trap related skill bonuses to One with the Land for rangers.

Bane of Enemies should be a free ranger feat at level21 or whenever they fulfill the necessary favored enemy requirements.

HiPS is hard.  That's one of those things that crosses class lines.  It could be added/removed on area enter/exit scripts as necessary.

I wish we could edit bane of enemies.  By far it would be the nicest way to make the class more appealing.

21ranger/18druid/1monk with HiPS would be very tough.

21 ranger 18 druid 1 monk is barely more a threat than the 18 druid 2 sd 20 monk build, probably less so as it doesn't have 2397 uses of OP fist per day.

Its basically a tradeoff between more ab, more dmg and lots of high dc stunning fist movement speed 50% conceal and quivering palm sr etc
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