Freedom isn't free

[Sisyphus]

I'm sure I'm not the first one to mention this, but I still think there are too many freedom items on the server.  

I'm still of the opinion that 99% of immunity-items (if not all) should be removed, so as to make good use of the Fear spell, for instance, or to make that casting of Shadow Shield or Death Ward as critical as it should be.

But my scruple at the moment is with freedom.  There are many spells and abilities made useless with this, and if anyone has freedom at all, I propose it should only be hard bosses and those naturally immune, and perhaps only those who have been so lucky enough to grab such a boss item, which brings with it severe penalties for such a boon.

An alternate strategy might be to change these immunity items to partial immunity (magical resistance, for example) or bonuses to saves (but not too much bonus.., as saving throw bonuses seem to stack anyway).

My main argument for this is:

Without immunities, the spell domains (evocation, necromancy, transmutation, illusion, conjuration, etc) were a bit more balanced (only somewhat in favour of necromancy, perhaps..), but the enchantment school for instance has been made obsolete with the introduction of : freedom items, immunity to dominate/confusion/fear rings, and even the transmuting wizard/sorc has called it a day after the profusion of mason's belts.  

The only offensive spells worthy of a powerful sorcerer, it seems, are few and numbered:  IGMS, chain lightning, horrid wilting, ice storm, negative burst.  Whereas there are so many more spells that could make PVP a lot more unpredictable and interesting..

But I don't think I have the best opinion on this.  I'd like to see what others think and perhaps encourage a discussion, to see what a good balance on this server might possibly look like.


My view:  Limit immunity items, if any, to castings of death ward or shadow shield (or freedom of movement, etc), at a use/day *or charges*, and perhaps at a decent lvl casting (say, lvl 12 or so).  Give these items multiple uses, if possible, the Fell Bracer being a good example of a well-made item (3 Shadow shield/day).  That's the best I can come up with at the moment, ... items which only replicate the use of regular defensive spells.  I think this would make PVP more interesting, and give all classes/builds a better chance of defeating their enemies fairly.

[tonoplast]

There are mucho dispels by NPCs etc, so spells like NEP or SS won't stay as long as you want it to be. Same for low level caster spells :/ So by limiting those items, I dunno how it's going to affect the server by reducing it. I'm not saying I'm against it though.

[parknutz]

Freedom immunity also makes the Assassin prestige class completely worthless.

The only immunities I feel that should be on here are the bigby spells. Yes, most STR builds can overcome the forceful but the dexers are dead in their tracks.

Less immunities and more items with uses per day would be better.

The problem here on GvM isn't the items. It's the style of play each player is used to. Here on GvM you have to be well equipped to handle boss run's and the Player encounters. The items on here are geared more towards handling boss runs rather than making for "equal" ground pvp.

[charliebuckett]

We want casters to be stronger?  l bet 50 % of the melee toons are either barb or cleric now...take away freedom that number jumps big.  Forceful hand is a game over spell.  No freedom and one class becomes over strong.

  If anyones caster toons are not strong enough prehaps they should look in mirror...

[-firecracker-]

Forceful hand immunity is pretty easy to get hold of and the changes to it actually make it possible to save against, at least with strength toons. Also the duration has been reduced to something more sensible so if it is used successfully in pvp - it doesn't always result in one-hit wonder pvp encounters.

But most mages now use crushing hand instead, immunity items are much harder to come by and the grapple check is heavily stacked in favour of the mage (for most builds) - also the duration on this spell is very long. Yes you can dispel it but that can take several attempts by which time the mage will just cast it again and then it just becomes another one-hit wonder pvp encounter or a classic heal vs horrid spam match.

Assassins - maybe a dumb idea, but something like a blindness aura might be cool, maybe overpowered - just thinking out loud...

[Terrorble]

I think that freedom is more available than it should be.  I would have preferred to swap out 95% of the freedom properties with immunity to paralysis.  Thus leaving room for movement decreasing spells and slow and entangle.  It still kills death attack but it's closer to where it should be.

On the other hand, hold person/monster are devestating spells for quite a few of my builds if they did not have freedom.

[deathdude]

isnt that the same as saying wail of banshee is lethal to almost any non paladin/cot/blackguard build that has had its death ward dispelled? Same with flesh to stone spell (except masons belts are still rarer then freedom, though from the amount that drop in BD im pretty sure thats gonna change soon) to be honest i don't see much difference. Freedom also makes many good spells usless, like stonehold (which you can get rid of easily by using a cloak of breezes)

That said ive always thought freedom should only be on the very rare boss items, say from BD boss drops, but i also love the assassin class so i could be slightly biased... which, like others have pointed out is useless at the moment

Yes, freedom cast as a spell from items only would be easily dispellable, its supposed to be like that for Non Casters, if its such a problem party up with a high level ranger/cleric/druid that can cast it on you. In this way removing freedom also promotes team play slightly. If others don't want this? make it a scripted item effect (like that item that casts haste without using a spell), that casts a higher level freedom instead of casting the lvl 7 freedom spell.

[Sisyphus]

what about making available items with up to +10 saving throw bonus to paralysis? 

we should save the assassins--we need more good/evil characters in middle earth.

[nwnolan]

The only reason I would ever go evil would be Blackguard. Or if they made some really good weapons that were only usuable by good/evil. What's so bad about going good/evil? Is it solely because of smiters?

[sestitodc]

I can assure you that it is not fun going to MT on an evil character .

[deathdude]

from what i remember of before the wipe... the peacekeepers weren't fun even when they didn't smite you...

[Sisyphus]

Some decent weapons and magical items seem to be good and/or evil only.  This is one way to do it, but it would be nice to revive the assassin class, as it's 1 of the 3 classes who get UMD, and uncanny dodge (and sneak attacks), and great dex as a bonus feat.  Lots in store for this class, except his main strength (and raison d'etre) is gimped to bits..

The only reason I would ever go evil would be Blackguard. Or if they made some really good weapons that were only usuable by good/evil. What's so bad about going good/evil? Is it solely because of smiters?