Sauron The All Knowing

[Sancho29]

Ok so I'm sure everyone knows where I'm going with this already...why does sauron tell mords where we are in way more areas now?  Gondor has nothing even close to that many.   This is not the problem though (it's not like mords will actually kill us haha)  the problem is that when sauron shouts...it seems to have the invisibility purge effect.  Lawson and I tested it and it seems that when sauron shouts where you are,  invis (and possibly concealment from it) are removed.  Was this intentional?

[sestitodc]

Ok so I'm sure everyone knows where I'm going with this already...why does sauron tell mords where we are in way more areas now?  Gondor has nothing even close to that many.   This is not the problem though (it's not like mords will actually kill us haha)  the problem is that when sauron shouts...it seems to have the invisibility purge effect.  Lawson and I tested it and it seems that when sauron shouts where you are,  invis (and possibly concealment from it) are removed.  Was this intentional?

I had the same problem earlier today. My invisi was removed and I couldn't figure out why (although after reading Sancho's post I'm sure this is why, cause it happened right after Sauron's server shout).

[Terrorble]

I'm venturing a guess, but I imagine it was intentional.

Gondor should build a tower with a massive burning eye on top too.  They are apparently very useful.

[NLawson]

I'm venturing a guess, but I imagine it was intentional.

Gondor should build a tower with a massive burning eye on top too.  They are apparently very useful.

How about we make friends with giant dragons, and eagles, and a seriously powerful mage called Gandalf...? 

Surely they fly around day-to-day (or in Gandalf's case use a scrying bowl), and presumably spot people...

The shouts don't matter, they're not the problem, but can we either get rid of that stupid invis removing effect, or give Gondor something that does exactly the same effect please? I hate walking through XR, and then suddenly my invis is gone and I have to deal with the mobs that have spawned (and any mords nearby) on a toon which might not be strong enough to do so yet.

[ollebroc]

You never know if one of those that get spotted has something of value to Sauron, who would reward the Mordorian very very very very very majestically.

How about we make friends with giant dragons, and eagles, and a seriously powerful mage called Gandalf...? 

If Gandalf was smart enough to use the eagles in the first place, this story would have been really short.

The shouts don't matter, they're not the problem, but can we either get rid of that stupid invis removing effect, or give Gondor something that does exactly the same effect please?

One doesn't just walk into Mordor without being seen. Sauron is building up his army, things are gonna get worse. Best you find and destroy what he seeks before he does.

[NLawson]

Alright then - how about if there's anything Gondor has fought in the last 10 minutes, that is Mordor aligned (NPC or PC alike) Sauron shouts them upon fight starting and can't shout anything else until the ten minutes are up.

If you want to go by the story - Sauron was distracted by the battle at the Black Gate, so the same should apply here - some Mordor boss or Mordor PC gets taken down, Sauron can't shout for a while.

[Sancho29]

.....furthermore,  if we kill the WK he should not be able to see us on the count of crying.  You can't cry with your eyes (or eye) open.  And come on...we all know the two of them have something going on....we have all heard the stories about what you mords do to each other over there.   *shivers*   

[olof]

If you guys haven't noticed the sides aren't the same; not every little detail is even, but taking into account everything it's supposed to be close.

In some ways, Gondor has an advantage. In others, Mordor does.

[NLawson]

Yeah, they're not the same, but this is a huge advantage to one side with little-to-no concern given to the other. It wasn't even announced that Mordor would now have something which would dispel invis semi-randomly (there are trigger tiles but they're hard to find exactly, given the delay between walking over them and the shout).

For a while Mordor toons could smite bosses they faced, while Gonds couldn't because the bosses weren't all evil. That was fixed.
For a longer time, the weapons have been unbalanced so that the only way to get good weapons of certain types was to play the other side - this is also being evened out, from what I've seen.

This is worse - not only do Gonds have to risk going into Mordor territory to get decent training at Shelobs and CU (whereas Spirits for mords is outside PF, and except for the shout that the spirits are being attacked Gonds have no indication anyone is even there), but there's now an auto-purge and a shout that tells the mords exactly which map we're in, two or three times per map?

I know this is most likely to encourage PvP, but all this does is put Gondor players at a massive disadvantage, having to always be on the defensive for an attack that may or may not be coming, whereas Mordor players can train in relative peace if the initial shout is missed. Either even it out and give it to both sides, or at the very least remove the invis-purge effect. That just makes it too easy, because not only does every Mordor know where the Gonds are, but they can rest safe knowing that they've got to deal with every mob on the map attacking them now that their invis has gone.

This is at it's worst in the road to Shelobs - it's not so bad on the way to CU - since it's virtually impossible to get to Shelobs without getting stuck behind at least one mob (two large packs of wolves, two sets of giants in a tiny passage, 2 sets of spiders in the middle of the ramps, and raiders shooting at you the whole time if they spot you), the last thing we need is some idiot fireball with a loud mouth telling people exactly where we are and where we're going, and then removing our invis so we have to fight our way there.

[ollebroc]

So, your basically worried about getting caught near weaker mobs and have to fight them so you can go fight stronger mobs.   

Maybe you should be trying to "avoid" Sauron's eye. 

[NLawson]

So, your basically worried about getting caught near weaker mobs and have to fight them so you can go fight stronger mobs.   

Maybe you should be trying to "avoid" Sauron's eye. 

What really bothers me is that this advantage can be given to one side without warning, and aside from those who tend to play Gonds (such as Sancho and I) barely anyone seems to care.

And I don't see why Gonds should have to make the extra effort to work out exactly where all these trigger tiles are, while Mords have free reign to hunt us down without even using see invis, since we leave a trail of empty passages and server-wise shouts leading right to us - even when we hide and creep along walls to avoid them (not that the ability to hide makes any difference in PvP, with all the TS items out there - the only viable sneaks anymore tend to be monks since they can run away when spotted).

Stop being cryptic and give me a straight goddamn answer to these questions:
1) Why was this implemented without giving Gonds anything to compensate, and;
2) Why was this implemented without any sort of warning that Gonds now faced invis-dispell and server shouts wherever they went inside XR and the associated areas?

I'm not gonna ask why no one aside from us seems to care, since I already know almost everyone else I can think of plays Mordor at least as much as Gondor, so they benefit from this. That's probably also the reason why no one seems bothered that PF has nothing in it to attract Mords (so they have no reason aside from raids to go there), and why the CU passage is so much more trouble to get through than anywhere else I can think of, aside from the passages in Helm's Deep.

I don't want witty comments (oh so witty) about Gondor not having Sauron, I just want two straight (and honest) answers.

[Abimael]

Take on the bright side, all you need to do is make a lvl 1 rogue halfling and throw that ring with unlimited uses of GS on the fires of mount doom while the big lvl 40 party is trying to raid MM

[Sancho29]

If I thought it would make at least ONE person give a sh** about this and give us a legitimate explenation of the thinking behind this (or lack of), I would make a halfling named frodo baggins,  and Lawson could be Sam,  and I'll walk the entire damn path from all three movies.  I'll even do it without gandalf since gondor seems to have lost him as well and that's why he can't do shouts.

[Endlessorrow]

Take on the bright side, all you need to do is make a lvl 1 rogue halfling and throw that ring with unlimited uses of GS on the fires of mount doom while the big lvl 40 party is trying to raid MM

 GIVE US BACKS  OUR ....
           
         PRECIOUS!!!!

[ollebroc]

Oh Ye's of hobbit patience,
There are many things that have yet to be revealed that are present in the mod. If ya spend all your time leveling in the same caves and fighting the same bosses all the time, you will never ever understand the reason behind the madness. Sauron's Eye is a minor nuisance compared to what's really out there.

In the end, it's the mords who will be screaming bloody heck.  

[NLawson]

In the end, it's the mords who will be screaming bloody heck.  

If I believed you that there's something out there that will benefit Gonds more than this benefits Mords (rather than just being an annoyance, like some difficult boss that they can't beat), I wouldn't be complaining.
I wonder why I don't believe you...It's probably something to do with the cryptic. At least I believe you that the Rogue arena reward will be useful later. If it turns out to be really useful - I won't doubt you again 

Ta for not taking that last one the wrong way though - I was pissed off at nothing in particular and I kinda took it out on you for no real reason - Sorry   

[Abimael]

If I thought it would make at least ONE person give a sh** about this and give us a legitimate explenation of the thinking behind this (or lack of), I would make a halfling named frodo baggins,  and Lawson could be Sam,  and I'll walk the entire damn path from all three movies.  I'll even do it without gandalf since gondor seems to have lost him as well and that's why he can't do shouts.

Hello, welcome to Gondor vs Mordor, a NwN server based on LORD OF THE RINGS.

I am personally finding those changes kind of amusing, making me want to come back again (getting kinda bored of the games I'm playing as well ). This actually makes the server more immersive than the casual hack-and-slash-and-grab-your-lootbag style of playing that at one point can get boring.

If you want an "equal" experience, join Antiworld or other servers out there. You'll find plenty of brainless action and equality.

[Sancho29]

Don't try to pull that card with me, there is an obvious need for a medium between 'true to the book' and 'complete rip off'.   I understand that in the books,  mordor had an overwhelming and insane advantage,  but gondor also had control of the one ring, which ultimately screwed mordor.  So if we are trying to be that way,  mordor should not even have a team right now.  You guys lost,  go home.  This game is set after the events in books/movies...correct? Sauron's tower was DESTROYED!  He no longer exists!  Why is he shouting at me and stripping my invis? 

Ladies and gentlemen I give to you LOTR 4: lost in time..

[Sancho29]

And to make this perfectly clear,  I don't want both teams to be the same,  that's boring.  I'm a huge fan of the 'difference between factions'  ....that being said,  gondor has no different but equal benefits.  The only thing we really have going for us is our home city maps (excluding PF...blerg).

[radagast]

Of late there has been that few mords on that I cant say i've noticed a difference (also i cant be bothered to go treking across the world to find gonds)

I'm sure you have both been around enough to know that olle NEVER gives a straight answer  if you have things up your sleeve for mordor all i can say is do your worse olle cos i'm not giving you the satisfaction of complaining...

 If i cant deal with what a woosie dm throws at me what kind of gamer would i be (braces himself!!) 

[NLawson]

I'm sure you have both been around enough to know that olle NEVER gives a straight answer  if you have things up your sleeve for mordor all i can say is do your worse olle cos i'm not giving you the satisfaction of complaining...

Actually I did get a straight answer once (or what I would consider straight) when I asked what the reward from rogues arena was for, and Olle said "Nothing, yet". 

And I just like complaining. It makes me feel better when I something like this happens that annoys me for a while...
And to be honest, the most annoying thing isn't even the invis purge. I can live with that, knowing that it's there. the most annoying thing, now, is probably the fact that no one mentioned anything. Every other update gets posted on the sign...this one wasn't. It was a surprise, then it pissed me off, now I'm getting ready to complain on the Mords behalf when whatever is implemented turns out to be massively unfair and cripples the entire team...except for about 4 people.

[olof]

And to make this perfectly clear,  I don't want both teams to be the same,  that's boring.  I'm a huge fan of the 'difference between factions'  ....that being said,  gondor has no different but equal benefits.  The only thing we really have going for us is our home city maps (excluding PF...blerg).

Wow, this contradicts itself. Not everything is "different but equal"; sometimes it's just different. Sometimes Mordor benefits from that, and sometimes Gondor does. At the end of the day, one faction isn't any better than the other as a result. They're just different. If you want to start a whine war about differences, where's the Mordor equivalent to the chicken? Why is Kell closer to MT? Why do Mordor crypts suck compared to Gondor crypts?

They're all pointless arguments, because the DMs look at the big picture and keep it balanced. If gonds are getting shafted in one way, they're getting rewarded in another. If you go asking for something negative to be removed, don't be surprised if they take out something you like to compensate. And then, guess who you screwed over? All the other gonds that didn't complain about it.

And trying to say the server should be a movie replica is a pointless argument. A server that can be beaten by a pair of level 3 halflings isn't all too fun to play on. They have to modify it to keep it challenging to both factions.

As for the comment on the change not being documented, I agree completely. There's a lot undocumented, and some things don't work as intended (or as documentation states, at least). As a newb, I've been treating the wiki like it's law... didn't take me long to figure out that's a bad idea.

[Sancho29]

Olaf, did you read all my posts with one eye closed or something?  You successfully missed or skewed the point of every single one.  By "different but equal"  I mean EXACTLY what you said.   Each side has pros and cons, strengths and weaknesses, but at the end of the day,  one faction is not too much better off than the other.  And also,  I do NOT want this to be a movie replica.  That was a response to somebody posting "this is a LOTR based server!!!! Blah blah blah"   (or something similar)  trying to tell me that mordor's big shiny eyeball tower was the reason that things (from a realistic point of view maybe)  should be unbalanced.

[Endlessorrow]

  Thank god the devs are more into tolkiens books than the hit movies. Sauron constantly scaned middle earth. that and his absolute control over all creatures of mordor were his only real powers.

  He could also try corrupting and turning others to evil, or despair.  This was the real battle of the third age. played out in the hearts and minds of all its characters.   


    NOW, KNOW YOU PATHETIC MORTALS THE POWER AND INVINCIBLE MIGHT OF MORDOR AND THE TERRIBLE GAZE OF THE UNBLINKING EYE!

    GO AND AWAIT YOUR DOOM WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING. FOR IN THIS MIDDLE EARTH THERE IS NO EQUITY NO HOPE AND NO PLACE FOR THE FOOLISH PAWNS OF THE ELDAR.



Alternatley you can try the path of heroes and face down the horrible forces of hate despite their power and formidable hate.

[olof]

  Thank god the devs are more into tolkiens books than the hit movies. Sauron constantly scaned middle earth. that and his absolute control over all creatures of mordor were his only real powers.

  He could also try corrupting and turning others to evil, or despair.  This was the real battle of the third age. played out in the hearts and minds of all its characters.   


    NOW, KNOW YOU PATHETIC MORTALS THE POWER AND INVINCIBLE MIGHT OF MORDOR AND THE TERRIBLE GAZE OF THE UNBLINKING EYE!

    GO AND AWAIT YOUR DOOM WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING. FOR IN THIS MIDDLE EARTH THERE IS NO EQUITY NO HOPE AND NO PLACE FOR THE FOOLISH PAWNS OF THE ELDAR.



Alternatley you can try the path of heroes and face down the horrible forces of hate despite their power and formidable hate.

Endless wins. Nothing else can be said to that.